| Arsanerit | de-facto: I wonder if in three months he'll resign due to being not allowed to act as he thinks is appropriate. | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | a legit concern | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Argentina: +2477 cases (now 5.3 million), +34 deaths (now 116680), +42346 tests (now 26.5 million) since 18 hours ago — Colombia: +1698 cases (now 5.1 million), +41 deaths (now 128821), +51687 tests (now 28.4 million) since 18 hours ago | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Africa Hospitals Jammed with Omicron Patients - "about 75% to 80% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated" → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/rak670/south_africa_hospitals_jammed_with_omicron/ | 00:10 |
| LjL | that Topol retweet... man it's a can of worms | 00:11 |
| LjL | i barely understand the whole idea and the diatribe that's clearly resulting already | 00:11 |
| LjL | but at this rate, when i'm thinking Israel is telling us we need an i-th booster, they're probably actually at the i+2 booster and i just couldn't keep track quickly enough | 00:12 |
| LjL | everything wanes. like immediately. | 00:12 |
| LjL | i realize we can't just magically make vaccines work as we hoped, but is there a determined point at which we're going to say "okay, this is not sustainable, we have to pour more money in other research"? | 00:13 |
| LjL | i am not *entirely* at ease with the fact that Israel is getting a shower of vaccine in exchange for "data about them". it really seems the data is always "we'll quickly need more". | 00:13 |
| xx | LjL: you're saying almost exactly what I said a year ago, that once *any* vaccine is out there, the govs and companies will forget about doing any more research or doing any more *real* restrictions and will just push the vaccine, and blame everything on unvaccinated | 00:25 |
| LjL | another paper on persistence of SARS-COV-2 in the bowel... kinda scarier than the one i remember from months ago :\ https://bmcgastroenterol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12876-021-01905-3 | 00:25 |
| xx | instead of saying "Here's a vaccine, it will help you protect yourself if you're at risk, probably" and continuing more science research | 00:25 |
| LjL | xx, we don't even have to go too far though, we could push, like, other vaccines too. namely, variant-specific vaccines and intranasal vaccines for sterile immunity | 00:25 |
| LjL | instead it's "here, have your 4th dose of Pfizer and prepare for the 5th, Israeli citizen" | 00:26 |
| LjL | "rest of the world: you're next, just let us release the papers that show this is needed" | 00:26 |
| LjL | sorry if i'm being a bit cynical | 00:26 |
| xx | yeah, but they somehow just forgot about it... I remember how they said they'd adapt the mRNA ones quickly to new variants, but instead they are just raking in money on the old version | 00:26 |
| xx | that was supposed to be one of the best things about mRNA vaccines, that they can be adapted quickly | 00:26 |
| LjL | xx, they adapted it quickly, only the trials on it aren't going quickly at all | 00:27 |
| xx | yeah, because "why fund trials, when there's already a vaccine out there, and we can just blame everything on the unvaccinated?" | 00:27 |
| LjL | also, maybe i should've gotten Moderna after all, given the underwhelming data from Israel are all Pfizer of course, bleh ;( | 00:27 |
| LjL | unrelated - i hate the way Twitter doesn't let me open things in a new tab, so i have to directly click them, but sometimes when i go "back" it doesn't really go "back" and instead it goes somewhere i'll never be able to trace my way back to other tweets i also wanted to check better | 00:29 |
| xx | twitter interface is horrible, nitter makes is a bit better but still meh | 00:29 |
| xx | youtube is the same with this behavior where it ignores tab history (back/forward) | 00:29 |
| xx | and even hides the actual url! | 00:30 |
| xx | everything appears as www.youtube.com, no matter what channel you're on, so you can't copy it from the url bar and instead need to use the share buttons | 00:30 |
| * xx stops ranting | 00:30 | |
| LjL | looks like Denmark had a sudden spike in confirmed Omicron cases (quicker than Norway)? https://newsnodes.com/nu_tracker | 00:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ecuador: +2479 cases (now 529349), +234 deaths (now 33484), +55460 tests (now 2.0 million) since 18 hours ago — United Kingdom: +50974 cases (now 10.6 million) since 18 hours ago | 00:34 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/lovemoz1/status/1467978261074300928 | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 00:36 |
| LjL | %title https://nitter.eu/lovemoz1/status/1467978261074300928 | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 00:36 |
| LjL | ... | 00:37 |
| LjL | "Yes. It's also the mantra of Vincent Racaniello, host of TWiV. His position is unless very advanced age or certain immuno deficiencies, boosters are ridiculous. If you want one, go ahead, but it's of no consequence unless you're in above category. He's having Offit on (Con't)" | 00:37 |
| LjL | is Racaniello really taking this position? | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] Mixing mRNA, adenoviral, and spike-adjuvant vaccines for protection against COVID-19: Supply and availability issues for government-approved vaccines, together with worries about rare side-effects (such as thrombotic thrombocytopenia), have [... want %more?] → https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02757-4/fulltext | 00:38 |
| joerg | LjL: de-facto: did we meanwhile see verification/falsification of >>oslo: 30 caught omicron from polluted air in restaurant<< ? | 00:43 |
| joerg | >>one of the best things about mRNA vaccines, that they can be adapted quickly<< BNT/Pfizer claimed 100 days, Moderna a day later claimed 95d | 00:45 |
| joerg | aiui they already established a fastpath approval for modified vaccines based on an already approved predecessor | 00:46 |
| joerg | well, a procedure for... | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): Escape calculator takes step in that direction by aggregating data to intuitively visualize what is known about antigenic effects of RBD mutations to promote understanding & interpretation. So go to jbloomlab.github.io/SARS2_RBD_Ab_e… & try it out. (18/n) → https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1468001944023142404 | 00:47 |
| LjL | joerg, i didn't get more information on that | 00:50 |
| joerg | ta | 00:50 |
| LjL | minthos might have heard more | 00:51 |
| LjL | i am curious about Denmark also | 00:51 |
| LjL | all those confirmed cases | 00:51 |
| joerg | >> The results of the new study by Stuart and colleagues indicate that NVX increases the cellular immune response of the ChAd vaccine but does not equal the humoral response of the mRNA vaccines.<< ( ^^^ The Lancet (Online): [Comment] Mixing mRNA, adenoviral, and spike-adjuvant vaccines ) | 00:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): How and where are SARS-COV-2 antibodies made? A great detailed review @NatRevImmunol nature.com/articles/s4157… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468004830862008322 | 00:57 |
| joerg | meh! >>Not all permutations of heterologous vaccines were investigated—for example, NVX and m1273 priming was not considered. Longitudinal testing, reflecting immune memory response, has not yet been reported but is in progress<< | 00:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Norway: +2675 cases (now 287123), +3 deaths (now 1096), +57012 tests (now 8.7 million) since 19 hours ago — Faroe Is.: +41 cases (now 3957) since 19 hours ago — Dominica: +3 deaths (now 42) since 19 hours ago — Antigua and Barb.: +1 cases (now 4148), +306 tests (now 18088) since 19 hours ago | 00:59 |
| LjL | joerg, Novavax? | 01:04 |
| LjL | i guess Novavax priming wasn't considered because almost nobody is going to have Novavax as a first/second shot | 01:04 |
| LjL | but also, i'm looking at those quotes in a vacuum right now (as in: haven't skimmed the paper), but when i consider the US and UK results... i mean, they haven't even looked at the *right* dose of Moderna, and the US ones at least have tried neutralization against a D614G pseudovirus (not even Alpha or Delta!) | 01:05 |
| LjL | so it's a low bar to get anything better i think | 01:05 |
| Dredd | I keep confusing novavax with sputnik 🤦♂️ | 01:16 |
| xx | one is a vaccine, the other is a satellite :p | 01:16 |
| LjL | :P | 01:16 |
| Dredd | 😀 | 01:16 |
| xx | do you think we'll ever reach a world where I can say "I had my 5 boosters, I am most likely not gonna have a severe case nor die of covid, can I now get a permanent certificate?" | 01:18 |
| xx | instead of being considered unvaccinated 6 months after the last dose | 01:20 |
| LjL | i prefer not to answer that question ;( | 01:21 |
| LjL | but Israel is already at the 4th dose | 01:21 |
| xx | I mean, the most vulnerable are the ones who are 'virus-naive' is that's the right word for it. Basically those who never had covid and never had any vaccine for it ever. | 01:21 |
| LjL | and although this finding looks very debated already on twitter, Topol retweeted it, about the 3rd dose booster waning just as fast as the 2nd dose | 01:21 |
| LjL | maybe we'll reach such a world, but we'll need something else and new | 01:22 |
| xx | I imagine every extra booster just gets destroyed by the immune system faster than it can start replicating. | 01:22 |
| LjL | xx, yes, i think it's entirely possible that once people are born in a world that already has covid, it will be a childhood disease, most of the time it won't be too serious, and then they'll just keep having it as a cold. similar to other human coronaviruses. but that doesn't particularly help anyone except the people born after 2020 | 01:23 |
| LjL | xx, eh? the booster does not replicate | 01:23 |
| xx | you know what I mean | 01:23 |
| LjL | ah, well the mRNA kinda does i guess is what you mean | 01:23 |
| xx | yeah | 01:23 |
| LjL | as in turning into proteins. well, the thing is | 01:23 |
| LjL | the booster resulted in a *massive* increase in antibodies | 01:23 |
| LjL | so we could have hoped that those antibodies also stayed around reasonably longer | 01:24 |
| LjL | as in, compared to the second dose, with the third, the antibodies go way up. so the mRNA replicate *enough* for the immune system to *definitely* notice, at least | 01:24 |
| LjL | but then... maybe it says "oh well, wait, that was nothing, let me go back to sleep" :P | 01:24 |
| xx | that's almost what I was thinking yeah :D | 01:24 |
| LjL | i think it may partly be a matter of finding the right temporal interval. it won't change things qualitatively i guess, but could make quite a quantitative difference | 01:25 |
| LjL | right now we know that the initial 3-4 weeks between mRNA shots was too short, and that 10 or so is better | 01:25 |
| xx | or it just gets really well trained at that very specific thing, and doesn't do anything (or much) for the actually circulating variant | 01:25 |
| LjL | but with the booster, we waited *longer*, and maybe "too long" is also not great | 01:25 |
| LjL | well that is an entirely other matter | 01:25 |
| xx | true | 01:25 |
| LjL | i'm afraid it might not do much on omicron, but we'll see that | 01:26 |
| LjL | but the antibodies that are there, and then wane, are just there, we measure them irrespective of variant and of actual infections | 01:26 |
| LjL | (of course what's ultimately important is if they help against actual infection, but if we see they wane in the first place, that's not great) | 01:26 |
| LjL | anyway i might be making too big a deal of these early israeli data | 01:28 |
| LjL | it doesn't help i got my booster yesterday and today i see Topol going "here's bad news about the booster" :P | 01:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovakia: +4639 cases (now 1.2 million) since 19 hours ago — Australia: +1439 cases (now 220563), +9 deaths (now 2065) since 19 hours ago — Ghana: +326 cases (now 131246), +19 deaths (now 1228) since 19 hours ago — Botswana: +250 cases (now 195552), +1 deaths (now 2420), +32525 tests (now 1.9 million) since 19 hours ago | 01:36 |
| * darsie takes a covid test after a birthay party a few days ago. | 01:39 | |
| darsie | no symptoms | 01:40 |
| LjL | i have symptoms... hopefully just of a vaccine | 01:48 |
| LjL | but i think i'll take a paracetamol tonight | 01:48 |
| darsie | negative | 01:52 |
| LjL | i think quick tests like that are still extremely uncommon in italy | 01:54 |
| LjL | like, i can buy one on amazon, but that's €15 or so. not sure about supermarket | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Josiah Grindrod (@JT_Grindrod): Yes, @jrpsaki, that's exactly what you should do. And some N95s while you're at it. twitter.com/mkarolian/stat… → https://twitter.com/JT_Grindrod/status/1468022419755397121 | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Andorra: +621 cases (now 18631), +1 deaths (now 133) since 20 hours ago — Haiti: +128 cases (now 25638), +3 deaths (now 750) since 20 hours ago | 02:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | so this article refers to the conflicting findings on natural immunity & vax immunity | 02:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/ | 02:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | .title | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: From www.clarkcountytoday.com: Israeli study shows natural immunity delivers 13 times more protection than COVID vaccines – ClarkCountyToday.com | 02:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | "It should be noted that the Israeli study had a pool of people 10 times larger than the number in the CDC study. They also primarily used the Pfizer mRNA vaccine." | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Calculating the effect of Omicron's receptor binding domain mutations impact on antibody escape"These scores... emphasize the ominous antigenic properties of the recently described Omicron variant"jbloomlab.github.io/RBD_escape_cal… pic.twitter.com/Y12gF37ge2 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468024011196039171 | 02:12 |
| LjL-Matrix | Yes yes I should have picked Moderna! | 02:42 |
| LjL-Matrix | Actually the doctor who talked to me, although she stressed I could choose and she didn't have a preference to suggest for me, I felt she was very subtly pushing towards Moderna... while just knowing I would've probably picked Pifzer since I had Pfizer before | 02:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | When I briefly mentioned "I know Moderna is rumored to be slightly more effective, but" she nodded, and when I first said Pfizer, she wasn't like "okay, it's settled then", she kinda made me talk a little more about it | 02:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | I might just be picking up signals that weren't there because I tend to see a lot in the behavior of people especially when I ruminate after the fact | 02:44 |
| LjL-Matrix | Anyway as to the two studies, I dunno, the article mentions the CDC study also had Moderna and J&J while the Israeli study would have been mostly/all Pfizer, but... I think even the US doesn't have a ton of Moderna (though it may be overrepresented in the study), and let's not joke and pretend J&J is more efficacious than anything | 02:45 |
| LjL-Matrix | Also "13 times" is a pretty bold claim, I don't remember it being stated that way before | 02:46 |
| LjL-Matrix | > “The power of natural immunity was recently affirmed in an Israeli study, which found a 6.7 times greater level of protection among those with natural immunity vs. those with vaccinated immunity,” he said. | 02:48 |
| LjL-Matrix | The very same article makes an expert claim a different ratio of protection for the same study! | 02:49 |
| LjL-Matrix | I mean yes it's still greater | 02:49 |
| LjL-Matrix | > In September, Makary shared that there are more than 15 studies that have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. He referenced Israel “found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.” | 02:50 |
| LjL-Matrix | Okay, this may be symptomatic vs not vs severe vs what have you, with delta, without delta, etc... But just throwing this sequence of different numbers as part of the same article without clearly framing each is... uh | 02:50 |
| minthos | pfizer + moderna seems to be a bit better than pfizer + pfizer | 02:51 |
| LjL-Matrix | All I can really tell is the article is intent in convincing people natural immunity works better than vaccines and they may not care about getting the exact details of that across | 02:51 |
| LjL-Matrix | minthos: note that the studies I know of that seem to show it (one from the US and one from the UK) have used a full dose of Moderna as booster, however half a dose is being actually used. I guess those studies were set up before Moderna decided that. Plus, they are in vitro neutralization studies, they don't tell you the actual protection people get (that's harder and longer to learn about) | 02:52 |
| LjL-Matrix | I don't know if those are the same studies as the jnfo you have though | 02:53 |
| minthos | I don't know either, just based on a bunch of >=2nd hand sources | 02:56 |
| minthos | I haven't read the papers | 02:56 |
| de-facto | well LjL-Matrix now you are all BioNTech'ed hence if they do studies with 1st, 2nd and 3rd shot of BNT162b2 you know where you stand (mixing may be less common) | 03:00 |
| Raf[m] | <LjL-Matrix> "I might just be picking up..." <- Same here | 03:00 |
| de-facto | i think that is the reason why they do recommend to stay with the brand, to be the "common case" in the studies | 03:01 |
| Raf[m] | <LjL-Matrix> "Anyway as to the two studies..." <- The US has plenty of Moderna in stock, if that's what you mean. For some reason a lot of people are adamant on receiving Pfizer which is why so many more people got it | 03:01 |
| de-facto | i personally think it does not matter too much | 03:02 |
| Raf[m] | I speculate for two reasons: 1) pfizer has deep pockets and advertised more, plus moderna never had a drug before which made people hesitant. 2) rumors of more serious symptoms | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): New @TheLancet A mix and match randomized study for immune response (N >1,000, age 50+) adds to previous findings for a benefit of Moderna after Pfizer compared with 2 Pfizer shots, and new data for Novavax thelancet.com/journals/lance…thelancet.com/journals/lance… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468037832576884736 | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bulgaria: +2426 cases (now 705586), +208 deaths (now 29060), +34997 tests (now 6.7 million) since 21 hours ago — Egypt: +871 cases (now 364033), +43 deaths (now 20770) since 21 hours ago — Costa Rica: +231 cases (now 567614), +6 deaths (now 7318) since 21 hours ago [... want %more?] | 03:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +4952 cases (now 482310), +64 deaths (now 3957) since 21 hours ago — Belize: +144 cases (now 30824), +2777 tests (now 357056) since 21 hours ago — Syria: +90 cases (now 48709), +5 deaths (now 2782) since 21 hours ago — New Zealand: +98 cases (now 12430) since 21 hours ago | 03:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Channel Islands: +582 cases (now 19475), +1 deaths (now 105) since 22 hours ago — Cayman Is.: +134 cases (now 7663), +2 deaths (now 9) since 22 hours ago — Mauritius: +66 cases (now 22156) since 22 hours ago — Anguilla: +55 cases (now 1469) since 22 hours ago | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +3525 cases (now 2.1 million), +31 deaths (now 20995) since 22 hours ago — Bolivia: +1276 cases (now 544666), +25 deaths (now 19247) since 22 hours ago — Mexico: +752 cases (now 3.9 million), +110 deaths (now 295312), +4561 tests (now 12.0 million) since 22 hours ago — Kazakhstan: +545 cases (now 1.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 04:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): This is a new, more favorable computational biology prediction for Omicron using #AlphaFold2 and #AI tools:"no drastic changes that would completely evade exist- ing neutralizing antibodies (and therefore current vaccines)."biorxiv.org/content/10.110… pic.twitter.com/jc7iQcgJhQ → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468063675302903809 | 04:51 |
| LjL | Raf[m], maybe some people have heard that Moderna has more side effects that Pfizer (and that's a bigger thing in their mind than the fact it may also be somewhat more efficacious) | 05:00 |
| LjL | anyway yeah i suppose the US has a lot of Moderna, i was just thinking that generally speaking Moderna is a much smaller company and Pfizer just produces such a sheer amount of vaccines | 05:00 |
| LjL | but then i guess most Moderna goes to the US while a large percentage of Pfizer goes elsewhere | 05:00 |
| LjL | de-facto, agreed i guess that was part of my reason for choosing Pfizer. but really, if we had had data on half-dose Moderna, and it was better, i'd have gone with that (or if they had given me full-dose Moderna) | 05:01 |
| LjL | without that though... the difference is unknowable | 05:01 |
| de-facto | just a short reminder: BNT162b2 was developed by BioNTech and probably the doses delivered in EU also produced by BioNTech | 05:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: New Zealand won’t send diplomats to Beijing Olympics, citing COVID-19 → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/new-zealand-wont-send-diplomats-to-beijing-olympics-citing-covid-19-7660090/ | 05:10 |
| spokojni[m] | omg :( How much longer? | 05:14 |
| spokojni[m] | Just vaccinate all the elderly, fragile and handicapped. Let finally end this. | 05:15 |
| LjL | de-facto, short remind me all day long, but everyone here is calling it Pfizer, *the vaccine center* has signs with "Pfizer →", i'm calling it BioNTech on the Zotero, but i'm not going to systematically call it BioNTech or BNT162b2 (i just got some additional RSI just typing those) just because it annoys you that the German company gets mentioned less | 05:16 |
| LjL | if i say BNT to most people they'll be like "what's that?", so double the work | 05:17 |
| LjL | Pfizer has also provided most of the facilities for the trial | 05:18 |
| LjL | i don't see you often reminding people that the AstraZeneca vaccine "should be called" the Oxford vaccine... | 05:18 |
| LjL | (which was indeed what everyone called it for a few months) | 05:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A second Delta US surge is in the worksToday's ~60,000 hospitalizations, over 190,000 new cases reported (with weekend backlog), and 7-day avg >1,250 deaths are not putting us on any solid footing to deal with the O versionnewsnodes.com/us pic.twitter.com/jVmuT9XXsw → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468070530414563333 | 05:19 |
| de-facto | yeah but it was initially developed by BioNTech they even paid Pfizer for doing the trials, basically it was developed with German taxpayers money and later manufacturing was scaled by Pfizer and BioNtech, yet Pfizer refused to ever take money from US government | 05:19 |
| de-facto | just calling it Pfizer without even mentioning the original developer is a bit unfair in my opinion | 05:20 |
| * LjL-Matrix uploaded an image: (75KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/kEViblCoNobuJXAUEtIKUdvb/IMG_20211207_052134.jpg > | 05:22 | |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nejm.org: Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine | NEJM | 05:22 |
| de-facto | "Pfizer was responsible for the design and conduct of the trial, data collection, data analysis, data interpretation, and the writing of the manuscript. BioNTech was the sponsor of the trial, manufactured the BNT162b2 clinical trial material, and contributed to the interpretation of the data and the writing of the manuscript." | 05:22 |
| LjL-Matrix | Here, be happy with the stated manufacturer of my covid certificate | 05:22 |
| LjL-Matrix | But then also feel free to remind people about Biontech every time I say Pfizer, but whsr *I* feel is it's a bit unfair to demand that I "mention the original developer" every time | 05:23 |
| de-facto | yes both manufacture it now | 05:23 |
| de-facto | .title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine#Manufacturing | 05:23 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - Wikipedia | 05:23 |
| LjL-Matrix | Maybe the bot should send a message "Warning: that's actually BioNTech/Pfizer Comirnaty COVID-19 Vaccine" | 05:24 |
| LjL | this sounds like a GNU/Linux thing and i really don't care | 05:24 |
| LjL | besides that was about the American situation, Americans typically haven't even heard of BioNTech | 05:25 |
| de-facto | yeah they are Americans... | 05:25 |
| LjL | if you feel your taxpayer money was unfairly given over to America, take it up with your government and/or BioNTech and/or Pfizer and/or the American government, not with me, i'm just using the name everyone here (and elsewhere) uses | 05:26 |
| LjL | me calling it BNT won't change where the money went and came from | 05:26 |
| de-facto | the correct name is BioNTech/Pfizer since it was a collaboration | 05:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mixing Pfizer, AstraZ Covid-19 shots with Moderna gives better immune response: UK study → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/mixing-pfizer-astrazeneca-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-immune-response-study-7660092/ | 05:28 |
| de-facto | Just calling it Pfizer ignores its origin as the name indicates it was a BioNTech development BNT162b2 (aka "Comirnaty"), Pfizer usually prefixes its own products with PF-<number> as seen by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PF-07321332 aka "Paxlovid" | 05:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +41439 cases (now 1.9 million), +152 deaths (now 27319) since 23 hours ago — Pakistan: +232 cases (now 1.3 million), +7 deaths (now 28784) since 23 hours ago — Honduras: +100 cases (now 378351), +3 deaths (now 10416), +2091 tests (now 1.1 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 05:32 |
| LjL | let's see, i want to get me some Pfizer | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:32 |
| LjL | that should help | 05:32 |
| de-facto | But Pfizer also makes Paxlovid 3CL protease inhibitor (derived from their previous work) | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:34 |
| LjL | yes, bot may need some more AI | 05:36 |
| LjL | but this shouldn't be at all annoying, and it should just make a note to people about the proper vaccine name | 05:36 |
| LjL | don't see the harm | 05:36 |
| de-facto | what i wanted to say is that Pfizer is a big enough company to also have a lot of other products on the market, and in particular most likely is going to come out quite big with Paxlovid, and that does not have anything to do with their collaboration with BioNTech on Corminaty | 05:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:39 |
| LjL | oh well | 05:40 |
| LjL | where i hail from, this is the situation https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IT&q=Pfizer,BioNTech and i am a big supporter of WP:COMMONNAME so to speak | 05:41 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl4784 it seems Paxlovid came out of improving on Pfizers PF-00835231 targeting 2002 SARS-CoV-1 | 05:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 05:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.science.org: An oral SARS-CoV-2 Mpro inhibitor clinical candidate for the treatment of COVID-19 | 05:45 |
| * de-facto needs to get some sleep, gn8 | 05:46 | |
| LjL | you know, what irks me is i'm probably just about the only person here who's made some effort to call it BNT at least when talking to you, to respect your view of it, but the one time i'm talking to an American and calling it "the wrong way", i get a lecture | 05:59 |
| LjL | that's not *fair* | 06:00 |
| LjL | and it's pretty darned annoying | 06:00 |
| LjL | i have "BioNTech", with this capitalization, as a tag on a ton of papers saved on Zotero, that no one ever checks out, and i use that tag just because of you, or i'd use Pfizer | 06:00 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 06:00 |
| LjL | it kind of makes me not want to make any effort for anybody really | 06:01 |
| xx | LjL: you're appreciated | 06:01 |
| de-facto[m] | I was not arguing against you but against this whole trend, just hinting that only using Pfizer as name will not make clear if its Paxlovid or Cormirnaty | 06:06 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 06:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mongolia: +296 cases (now 383978), +3 deaths (now 2020) since a day ago — Japan: +73 cases (now 1.7 million), +1 deaths (now 18365), +53442 tests (now 28.2 million) since a day ago | 06:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Illinois, United States: +19110 cases (now 1.9 million), +85 deaths (now 29053) since a day ago — Michigan, United States: +17822 cases (now 1.5 million), +131 deaths (now 26239) since a day ago — England, United Kingdom: +40924 cases (now 8.9 million), +34 deaths (now 126656) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 06:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kyrgyzstan: +63 cases (now 183712), +2 deaths (now 2762), +2762 tests (now 1.9 million) since a day ago — Comoros: +5 cases (now 4548) since 23 hours ago | 07:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Seoul reports first Omicron cases in 3 foreign students | 07DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rashjw/seoul_reports_first_omicron_cases_in_3_foreign/ | 07:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +15599 cases (now 2.3 million), +134 deaths (now 33902) since 23 hours ago | 07:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: New COVID pills offer hope as Omicron looms → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/new-covid-pills-offer-hope-as-omicron-looms-7660247/ | 07:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Celltrion's COVID-19 antibody treatment wins emergency approval in Australia | 07DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rasp86/celltrions_covid19_antibody_treatment_wins/ | 07:40 |
| minthos | https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2227511/thailand-detects-first-omicron-covid-case | 07:45 |
| minthos | "Thailand is the 47th country to detect the Omicron variant of the coronavirus." | 07:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: SARS-CoV-2 infects sustentacular cells in the olfactory epithelium of COVID-19 patients | The coronavirus does not appear to infect nerve cells in the olfactory epithelium and in the olfactory bulb | 24NOV21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rasxfq/sarscov2_infects_sustentacular_cells_in_the/ | 07:49 |
| joerg | >><LjL> but then... maybe it says "oh well, wait, that was nothing, let me go back to sleep" :P<< AIUI this is exactly how our immune system works. You don't keep antibodies for all pathogens you ever encountered, that would overwhelm the capacity of the immune system. The key is to *produce* antibodies very very quickly when encountering a virus *again* | 07:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from MedicineNet: (news): Pandemic Stress, Exhaustion Weigh on Health Care Workers → http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp | 07:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for El Salvador: +3 deaths (now 3789) since 23 hours ago | 08:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) screening system utilizing daily symptom attestation helps identify hospital employees who should be tested to protect patients and coworkers | 10NOV21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rataiv/coronavirus_disease_2019_covid19_screening_system/ | 08:17 |
| joerg | >>Maybe the bot should send a message "Warning: that's actually... GNU/linux<< ;-D | 08:23 |
| joerg | Damn, I can't get used to reading 20 lines ahead in backscroll to N+20 before I reply to N | 08:24 |
| joerg | I'll keep calling it BNT, and AZ, and JJ, no idea yet about damn Moderna shortcut | 08:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: UAlbany Experts Discuss Risks and Steps to Fight COVID-19 Fatigue | 06DEC21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/rath56/ualbany_experts_discuss_risks_and_steps_to_fight/ | 08:26 |
| joerg | /invite sigyn | 08:29 |
| joerg | I'm pretty sure sigyn ae ozone wouldn't like this Pfizer BioNTec spam about pfizer not being the single developer of pfizer-BioNTech BNT162B2 | 08:32 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 08:32 |
| joerg | neither do I | 08:33 |
| joerg | I think I DAMN KNOW >>Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered.<< | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 08:34 |
| joerg | I don't want to read >>Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered.<< each time I send a line | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 08:34 |
| joerg | maybe you at very least should throtlle the >>Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered.<< line, eh? | 08:35 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 08:35 |
| minthos | joerg: mrna (oh wait, that's already taken) | 08:35 |
| joerg | >>Avoid answering people with bots<< https://libera.chat/guides/helpers | 08:38 |
| joerg | call center? drill camp of CIA | 08:39 |
| minthos | MOD or MR or SV (for spikevax) may be reasonable abbreviations | 08:40 |
| minthos | or MA or SX if we're taking inpiration from unix traditions | 08:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: New Omicron travel rules come into force: Travellers to the UK need to take pre-departure tests in a bid to limit the spread of Omicron. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59558131 | 08:54 |
| joerg | MOD sounds good | 08:57 |
| joerg | re bot pfizer spam: it's generally strongly despised in libera/FN when bots reply without being highlighted | 09:00 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 09:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Georgia: +4509 cases (now 871580), +59 deaths (now 12466), +47328 tests (now 11.9 million) since a day ago — Armenia: +240 cases (now 341058), +27 deaths (now 7718), +6006 tests (now 2.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Taiwan: +21 cases (now 16683), +29248 tests (now 8.6 million) since a day ago | 09:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 07, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rau1v0/daily_discussion_thread_december_07_2021/ | 09:04 |
| genera | oh a wild bot. does it trigger on tozinameran ? | 09:08 |
| joerg | no, on pfizer | 09:12 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 09:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: U.S. CDC urges Americans to avoid travel to France, Jordan over Covid-19 concerns → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-cdc-france-jordan-travel-guidelines-7660408/ | 09:14 |
| genera | pfiźer | 09:17 |
| joerg | meh, won't change my font and keymapping to quiet the bot | 09:27 |
| joerg | I could do another autoreply in my client, just saying >>don't say PFIZER!<< whenever it reads >>Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty<< | 09:28 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 09:28 |
| joerg | try who's first to get k-lined | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +43651 cases (now 6.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Mizoram, India: +330 cases (now 136784), +1 deaths (now 508) since a day ago — Assam, India: +182 cases (now 617758), +6 deaths (now 6126) since a day ago — Himachal Pradesh, India: +112 cases (now 227630), +1 deaths (now 3853) since a day ago | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lithuania: +2148 cases (now 482458), +24 deaths (now 6886), +17755 tests (now 6.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 09:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Document: Dexamethasone / netilmicin: List of nationally authorised medicinal products - PSUSA/00010854/202104 → https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/psusa/dexamethasone/netilmicin-list-nationally-authorised-medicinal-products-psusa/00010854/202104_en.pdf | 10:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Six Canadian zoos will be getting COVID-19 vaccines for animals → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/rav5oz/six_canadian_zoos_will_be_getting_covid19/ | 10:20 |
| Dredd | de-facto @de-facto:libera.chat: the world is unfair and this is how marketing and distribution works 🤷♂️ | 10:28 |
| Dredd | As long as I understand what someone means and they understand what I mean I don't care personally what people call which vaccine | 10:28 |
| Dredd | There's going to be context in the discussion that means it's unlikely that comirnaty and paxlovid will get significantly confused imo | 10:29 |
| Dredd | joerg: not sure how repeatedly triggering the bot aligns with your wish to not see it correcting you on vaccine names? | 10:30 |
| Dredd | And what was that /invite someperson thing about? Was it a threat to tell on the bot to libera staff? | 10:31 |
| * Dredd calms Brainstorm @Brainstorm:libera.chat | 10:31 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to amuse Dredd with some ingratiating preeminence | 10:31 | |
| xx | did... did the bot just get sentient? | 10:32 |
| Dredd | 😂 | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ukraine: +9222 cases (now 3.7 million), +496 deaths (now 94469) since 23 hours ago — Estonia: +543 cases (now 225837), +1 deaths (now 1826), +6452 tests (now 2.4 million) since 23 hours ago | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Growing use of home Covid-19 tests leaves health agencies in the dark about unreported cases: With home tests becoming widely used, health agencies are increasingly relying on incomplete data and educated guesses to capture ups and downs in the Covid [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/07/growing-use-of-home-covid19-tests-leaves-health-agencies-in-the-dark/ | 10:39 |
| joerg | >>Was it a threat to tell on the bot to libera staff?<< no threat, a hint that such thing would put Brainstorm at risk of getting k-lined. Maybe I should have been more clear on it. Also note that it doesn't need ozone (ex sigyn) to detect spamming bots, libera's irc server has filters meanwhile which also might trigger on repeatedly posting same line | 10:41 |
| joerg | I'm far from threating anybody particularly in here, I try to improve things | 10:43 |
| joerg | aka help, not threat | 10:43 |
| dTal | ...pfizer. | 10:45 |
| Brainstorm | dTal: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 10:45 |
| dTal | hehehe | 10:46 |
| dTal | iasudfhsfupfizerdgsjkdghgkjdh | 10:46 |
| Brainstorm | dTal: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 10:46 |
| dTal | okay I agree that's dumb and annoying | 10:46 |
| dTal | I bet it still triggers if you say "Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran)" | 10:47 |
| Brainstorm | dTal: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 10:47 |
| dTal | yeah no shit | 10:47 |
| dTal | [04:36:56] <LjL> but this shouldn't be at all annoying, and it should just make a note to people about the proper vaccine name | 10:48 |
| dTal | that aged badly | 10:48 |
| joerg | :-D | 10:48 |
| minthos | LjL: people are getting annoyed | 10:49 |
| joerg | maybe invite a second instance of Brainstorm and watch them chatting ;-P | 10:50 |
| joerg | I tried a similar thing years ago with infobot, was pretty much fun X-D | 10:50 |
| joerg | as a fundamental rule on irc bots: they shouldn't trigger on their own (clone's) output | 10:51 |
| joerg | a generic extended rule from this and other considerations: bots SHOULD(RFC2119) only reply when highlighted or addressed by attention char | 10:54 |
| dTal | even if we ignore all that, it doesn't make much sense as a reminder | 10:55 |
| dTal | it doesn't provide context, and it triggers whenever you talk about pfizer-the-company | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | dTal: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 10:55 |
| joerg | QED :-D | 10:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Stopping the spread of mass hysteria by Facebook, other social media platforms: Social media companies need to establish behavioral health divisions that strategically drive vulnerable users towards real help instead of steering them down a rabbit hole of [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/07/stopping-spread-mass-hysteria-facebook-social-media/ | 10:58 |
| dTal | [04:24:53] <@LjL> this sounds like a GNU/Linux thing and i really don't care | 10:58 |
| dTal | maybe Brainstorm should do the copypasta | 10:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Papua New Guinea: +124 cases (now 35662), +23 deaths (now 573) since a day ago | 11:02 |
| dTal | "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Pfizer, is in fact, BNT162b2, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty. Pfizer is not a vaccine unto itself, but rather a contributor to a fully functioning vaccine made useful by BioNTech's sponsor of the trial, manufacture of the BNT162b2 clinical trial material, and contributions to the interpretation of the data and the writing of the manuscript." | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | dTal: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 11:02 |
| minthos | LjL just needs to disable that feature | 11:05 |
| minthos | it's pointless and annoying | 11:05 |
| minthos | I wonder what timezone he's in | 11:06 |
| minthos | (apologies if I misgendered you) | 11:06 |
| dTal | oh he's definitely asleep | 11:08 |
| Dredd | <dTal> "that aged badly" <- I feel like LjL might have been being sarcastic there 😉 | 11:08 |
| joerg | you didn't afaik. Wekk, LjL is often a tad triggerhappy with new features of bot :-) Probably a good thing but sometimes a dash of peer review before rollout could be useful :-) | 11:08 |
| joerg | well* | 11:09 |
| Dredd | <dTal> ""I'd just like to interject..." <- This Stallman thing is great 😛 | 11:09 |
| dTal | hey, it got us all talking about it | 11:09 |
| dTal | it's an IRC bot, the stakes are pretty low. I think it's funny | 11:09 |
| dTal | and it makes the point - trying to police what people call stuff is like King Cnut holding back the tide | 11:10 |
| joerg | I think it was an overreaction to a pretty terse >>[7 Dec 2021 05:08:33] <de-facto> just a short reminder: BNT162b2 was developed by BioNTech and probably the doses delivered in EU also produced by BioNTech << | 11:12 |
| Dredd | <joerg> "I'm far from threating anybody..." <- Fair enough but still not sure how you expected "/invite sigyn I'm pretty sure sigyn ae ozone wouldn't like this Pfizer BioNTec spam about pfizer not being the single developer of pfizer-BioNTech BNT162B2" to be interpreted? | 11:12 |
| Brainstorm | Dredd: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 11:12 |
| Dredd | I have no idea who sigyn is | 11:14 |
| joerg | that's the problem I ignored, the comment was "tailored" towards recipients who know sigyn and witnessed her messing up channels when she was in trigger happy mood | 11:15 |
| Dredd | Ah, so sigyn is also a bot? | 11:15 |
| joerg | yes | 11:15 |
| joerg | the irc network antispam bot | 11:15 |
| Dredd | Ah ok, sorry I mistook what you meant quite a bit then! | 11:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: These Real Estate and Oil Tycoons Avoided Paying Taxes for Years: by Jeff Ernsthausen , Paul Kiel and Jesse Eisinger ] ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. The Secret IRS Files is an ongoing [... want %more?] → https://www.propublica.org/article/these-real-estate-and-oil-tycoons-used-paper-losses-to-avoid-paying-taxes-for-years#1182856 | 11:16 |
| joerg | now it's renamed to ozone | 11:21 |
| joerg | [Whois] ozone is ozone@libera/bot/ozone (AntiSpam Utility Bot \ #libera-bots) | 11:21 |
| joerg | chanops may /invite it, but it also may join without invitation | 11:23 |
| joerg | note that I'm not a chanop, so this wasn't a failed effort to actually invite ozone, neither sigyn which doesn't exist in libera | 11:24 |
| Dredd | Ah, so not the Dragostea Din Tei Ozone? 😛 | 11:24 |
| joerg | topic of #libera-bots: /invite ozone if spambots on your channel (voice your bots) | /invite litharge (channel ban management) | https://libera.chat/guides/bots | 11:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Poland: +19369 cases (now 3.7 million), +505 deaths (now 86205), +147301 tests (now 25.1 million) since a day ago — Zimbabwe: +2555 cases (now 141601), +3 deaths (now 4713), +8380 tests (now 1.6 million) since a day ago — Norway: +2488 cases (now 289611) since 10 hours ago [... want %more?] | 11:39 |
| sdfgsdfg | dailymail says south african cases are lower today because they did tens of thousands of fewer tests - "Meanwhile, hospital admissions have doubled to 175 and Covid deaths have dropped slightly. " | 11:47 |
| sdfgsdfg | "Doctors on the ground are so far reporting that cases have been mild. But experts warn the variant spreading among younger age groups and the lag between catching the virus and becoming seriously unwell could be masking the severity of the new strain." | 11:48 |
| sdfgsdfg | the laggg | 11:48 |
| sdfgsdfg | actually masking the severity of the new strain | 11:49 |
| joerg | speculations | 11:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Tackling population health challenges as we build back from the pandemic: No amount of positive spin can detract from the numbers. The UK has not done well in the pandemic, whether measured in terms of mortality,1 economic performance,2 or social protection. This should... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-066232.short | 11:54 |
| joerg | admittedly it's difficult to tell apart relevant phenomena seen on small scale - like for example a 80 of 100 infected in Oslo despte most were fully vaccinated, from random artifacts and noise in often even larger scale but short term - like lower counts after weekend due to reporting lag and WE-"holidays" | 11:55 |
| joerg | my general approach is to at least build the average over 3 days of "news" before evaluating only those that didn't change during those 3 days. A tad fuzzy description but I hope you get the idea | 11:58 |
| dTal | joerg: lowpass filter your information stream | 11:59 |
| dTal | slightly less fuzzy :p | 11:59 |
| sdfgsdfg | sounds good to me, although there aren't many alternatives | 11:59 |
| sdfgsdfg | at least with the mainstream group | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: EMA and ECDC recommendations on heterologous vaccination courses against COVID-19 → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/ema-and-ecdc-recommendations-heterologous-vaccination-courses-against-covid-19 | 12:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and [... want %more?] → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-daily-new-cases-covid-19-eueea-country | 12:22 |
| joerg | dTal: >>lowpass filter your information stream<< that's how http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm came into existence. I been annoyed by corona.rki.de showing those wobbly raw data with this obvious 7day periodic noise intermodulated, so I invented the 7d average filter long before anybody else been using it, now it's used everywhere | 12:33 |
| dTal | lol I don't think you invented the 7 day filter :p | 12:34 |
| * dTal wonders when tinwhiskers added it to offloop | 12:34 | |
| joerg | nah, I "invented" applying it to the incidence data | 12:34 |
| joerg | I'm not sure if offloop already existed back when | 12:35 |
| joerg | wait, I seem to recall tinwhiskers asking me how I implemented it? | 12:36 |
| joerg | anyway, RKI didn't implement it to this very day, not really :-) | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +272 cases (now 823102), +2 deaths (now 11545), +9386 tests (now 4.7 million) since a day ago — Brunei: +27 cases (now 15229), +13810 tests (now 645285) since 21 hours ago — Timor-Leste: +1 cases (now 19829) since a day ago | 12:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA: The downloadable data files contain information on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA. The data are presented in the Vaccine Tracker and collected through The European Surveillance System (TESSy). → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-covid-19-vaccination-eu-eea | 12:41 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/BehQAAq.png | 12:42 |
| joerg | s.sh2020-Apr-17 19:50:471.7Ktext/x-sh; charset=utf-8 http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/ | 12:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovenia: +1954 cases (now 432793), +17 deaths (now 5336), +5476 tests (now 2.0 million) since 15 hours ago — Laos: +1360 cases (now 82082), +4 deaths (now 214), +5793 tests (now 826504) since 23 hours ago — Latvia: +860 cases (now 258419), +23 deaths (now 4300), +11804 tests (now 5.4 million) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 13:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Ubac, Streptococcus uberis vaccine (inactivated), Date of authorisation: 26/07/2018, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/veterinary/EPAR/ubac | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Saturday night fever! Finnish PM Sanna Marin under fire over nightclub trip: Finland's prime minister is being criticized for having a night out shortly after a government colleague tested positive for coronavirus. → https://www.politico.eu/article/sanna-marin-opposition-finland-nightclub-trip/ | 13:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +11019 cases (now 8.0 million), +189 deaths (now 120711) since 15 hours ago — Iran: +3514 cases (now 6.1 million), +79 deaths (now 130356) since a day ago — Indonesia: +261 cases (now 4.3 million), +17 deaths (now 143893), +375878 tests (now 56.5 million) since a day ago — Malta: +86 cases (now 40101) since 23 hours ago | 13:31 |
| joerg | hah! http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/__covid-19/__covid-19.2020-04-16.log.html#t2020-04-16T04:36:07 https://i.imgur.com/S7hPCI2.png - not sure if tinwhiskers already had that 7d average smoothing by then, quite possible they did | 13:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): It is one world, with a virus that will not respect borders. To reduce the risk of new variants, vaccines for all citizens of the world will be required.newsweek.com/avoid-omicron-… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468196023130640386 | 13:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Gibraltar: +26 cases (now 7402), +1215 tests (now 422991) since a day ago | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Update on COVID-19: We need to shift from reaction to stabilization mode in this crisis: Last month, we alerted that a further half a million lives could be lost by early 2022 unless we take [... want %more?] → https://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/statements/2021/statement-update-on-covid-19-we-need-to-shift-from-reaction-to-stabilization-mode-in-this-crisis | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +1530 cases (now 598503), +21 deaths (now 8004) since 21 hours ago — Romania: +1421 cases (now 1.8 million), +107 deaths (now 57260), +51708 tests (now 16.2 million) since a day ago — UAE: +62 cases (now 742438), +387672 tests (now 103.2 million) since a day ago | 14:33 |
| joerg | de-facto: re nonsense acronyms 2G, 3G, I suggest to rename AHAL into 4S: safety-distance, safety-hygiene, safety-mask and safety-LMA | 14:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): @EricTopol .@EricTopol, I think #AlphaFold2 is wrong here. Direct experiments show K417N ablates neutralization by antibodies CC12.1 & CC12.3 (see below from science.org/doi/10.1126/sc…). Whatever method #AlphaFold2 is using to predict they still bind #Omicron [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1468213053703344129 | 14:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): @EricTopol Also, this shows more people need to appreciate/use excellent SARS-CoV-2 resistance database by @sergeilkp Bob Shafer, @Philip_Tzou. You can look up what is experimentally known about resistance mutations to CC12.1 or any other antibody w minimal effort! [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1468216155672178688 | 14:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Babies’ Immune Response After Maternal Infection With SARS-CoV-2: New research reveals that women who test positive for COVID-19 at the time they give birth pass along antibodies in breast milk, protecting their newborns from infection → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/babies-immune-response-after-maternal-infection-with-sars-cov-2 | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sweden: +7412 cases (now 1.2 million), +226289 tests (now 13.9 million) since a day ago — Iraq: +625 cases (now 2.1 million), +16 deaths (now 23919), +18891 tests (now 16.5 million) since a day ago | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Not much has been said of Omicron's potential to induce #LongCovid, but with such high transmission levels that is certainly a concern, as even mild cases can be associated with prolonged disability /7 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468220576057548807 | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Certainly the positive is that Omicron is not much more pathogenic than Delta. But milder (hope or real) vs more infectious has tradeoffs that can increase absolute numbers with longCovid impact unknown. → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468225010061955080 | 15:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Croatia: +3262 cases (now 635027), +60 deaths (now 11329), +10244 tests (now 3.5 million) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +291 cases (now 1.6 million), +5 deaths (now 28010), +20014 tests (now 11.0 million) since a day ago — Kenya: +75 cases (now 255544), +2 deaths (now 5337), +7664 tests (now 2.9 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 15:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): First pseudo-virus neutralisation assay data including all mutations in Omicron. Press release; no data in the public domain as yet. This is the monoclonal antibody as tested in the preprint above..gsk.com/en-gb/media/pr… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468226076719648777 | 15:37 |
| joerg | meh! | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Sotrovimab reduces deaths and hospitalizations by 79%. It requires just one 30min IV infusion. It's a very good drug. It's been approved in the US since May. The craziest thing in this crazy epidemic? UK's MHRA only approved it 4 days ago. bmj.com/content/375/bm… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1468229682294362113 | 15:47 |
| joerg | >>Sotrovimab reduces deaths and hospitalizations by 79%. It requires just one 30min IV infusion<< alas here in Germany you are very likely to already be in hospital when you get any IV infusion, since it's not getting administered anywhere else | 15:55 |
| joerg | and when you are in hospital because of covid, not because of getting your infusion, then it's too late for Sotrovimab | 15:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): I still don't understand why we are not going all out for a pan-sarbecovrus vaccinepolitico.com/newsletters/pl… by @RyanLizza @politico w/ @brucegelin Our @nature paper in February nature.com/articles/d4158… pic.twitter.com/0BUTxJ9Aix → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468231398511235076 | 15:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Document: EMA reply to a letter from Members of the European Parliament, Ms M. Rivasi, Mr P. Pedicini and Ms T. Metz concerning COVID-19 vaccines → https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/other/ema-reply-letter-members-european-parliament-ms-m-rivasi-mr-p-pedicini-ms-t-metz-concerning-covid-19_en.pdf | 16:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): Sotrovimab being derived from the human response to spike makes me optimistic that vaccines will activate some B cells recognizing that epitope. These may be only a minority of plasma cells initially, but those i the memory B cell population can be [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1468239096074182665 | 16:25 |
| MeretheSoltvedt | anynews about Omicron variant | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): I made that point earlier, below. If it occurs in most people, then we would expect vaccines to retain good efficacy against late disease from omicron in immunocompetent people. But it remains to be seen how many people have B cells against that [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1468241117598650373 | 16:35 |
| joerg | MeretheSoltvedt: yes ^^^ | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +1884 cases (now 1.3 million), +40 deaths (now 11995), +15843 tests (now 6.9 million) since a day ago | 16:37 |
| MeretheSoltvedt | where is Serbia？ | 16:41 |
| MeretheSoltvedt | （sorry） | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): An explanation of how memory B cells can produce a second wave of antibodies to challenges that are similar but not identical to previous encounters.mobile.twitter.com/michaelzlin/st… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1468242426087280645 | 16:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "Experienced individuals" another term for Prior Covid or "natural immunity" pic.twitter.com/7MYspSHRFo → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468245093102624770 | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Armed gangs raise risks in vaccinating rural Nigerians → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/armed-gangs-raise-risks-in-vaccinating-rural-nigerians-7661352/ | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Jordan: +6392 cases (now 988159), +30 deaths (now 11817), +61337 tests (now 12.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Portugal: +3417 cases (now 1.2 million), +21 deaths (now 18572) since 21 hours ago — Montenegro: +215 cases (now 158838), +3 deaths (now 2334), +2126 tests (now 920043) since a day ago | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): EMA and ECDC recommendations on heterologous vaccination courses against COVID-19ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-ec… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468250231187857418 | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Vaxxitek HVT+IBD, Infectious bursal disease and Marek's disease vaccine (live recombinant), Date of authorisation: 09/08/2002, Revision: 16, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/veterinary/EPAR/vaxxitek-hvtibd | 17:23 |
| minthos | MeretheSoltvedt: Serbia is in southeastern europe (balkans) near Greece, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary etc. (in case you don't have google maps handy) | 17:29 |
| minthos | part of former Yugoslavia | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): NO! There is no new variant that isn't detectable by PCRThe a new set of sequences, closely related to #Omicron has been detected & we *absolutely can* detect cases with PCR. What we can't tell as easily is /that they are Omicron or [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468254350124494852 | 17:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Greece: +7254 cases (now 978402), +99 deaths (now 18815), +591067 tests (now 38.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Singapore: +715 cases (now 270588), +8 deaths (now 771) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +17940 cases (now 2.8 million), +69 deaths (now 20221) since 23 hours ago — Kosovo: +8 cases (now 161147) since 23 hours ago | 17:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): One key mutation that BA.2 is missing is the S:69/70del -- the one that causes the SGTF/S-drop-out. This means we can't use this 'shortcut' to find possible Omicron cases *for BA.2 only*. However, *the PCR test itself still works!* You'd test + for SARS-CoV-2.6/N → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468258810758406156 | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Again; Robust immune responses are observed after one dose of BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine dose in SARS-CoV-2 experienced individuals.i.e. it makes sense to get vaccinated after infection.science.org/doi/epdf/10.11… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1468260485992693762 | 17:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: The pandemic has your blood pressure rising? You’re not alone → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/health/pandemic-covid-19-blood-pressure-rising-7660971/ | 18:02 |
| LjL-Matrix | %title https://mobile.twitter.com/AlastairGrant4/status/1468151959957950466 | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | LjL-Matrix, the URL could not be loaded | 18:05 |
| LjL-Matrix | Potential R~=3.5 | 18:05 |
| LjL-Matrix | Did I break %title for good | 18:15 |
| LjL-Matrix | %title https://twitter.com/AlastairGrant4/status/1468151959957950466 | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | LjL-Matrix, the URL could not be loaded | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +15742 cases (now 5.1 million), +99 deaths (now 134386), +695136 tests (now 123.3 million) since a day ago — Morocco: +158 cases (now 950801), +10799 tests (now 10.5 million) since a day ago | 18:17 |
| LjL | joerg, maybe it would have been an *over*reaction to that on its own, but he went on | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Hi, I’m Lekshmi Santhosh, MD, MA, a lung doctor (pulmonologist), critical care doctor, and long COVID clinic founder at the University of California, San Francisco, and member of the American Thoracic Society (ATS). AMA! → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rb3gl2/hi_im_lekshmi_santhosh_md_ma_a_lung_doctor/ | 18:21 |
| LjL | i'm just making his job easier for him, instead of nagging me every time the bot can do it, eh | 18:21 |
| LjL | also see what i said after he went to bed because that explains my reaction too | 18:21 |
| LjL | on the other hand that should help my range not getting killed by sigyn or ozone or whatever, since i'd rather not have that | 18:24 |
| LjL | dTal, yes that would have been better, but to my credit, i did mention this sounded like the GNU/Linux thing while de-facto was insisting about it | 18:25 |
| LjL | <sdfgsdfg> dailymail says south african cases are lower today because they did tens of thousands of fewer tests - "Meanwhile, hospital admissions have doubled to 175 and Covid deaths have dropped slightly. " <sdfgsdfg> "Doctors on the ground are so far reporting that cases have been mild. But experts warn the variant spreading among younger age groups and the lag between catching the virus and becoming seriously unwell could be masking the severity of the new | 18:28 |
| LjL | strain." | 18:28 |
| LjL | it's a strange world where i have to repeatedly nod to something the Daily Mail writes, while fuming at people who just parrot "it's milder" from something that doesn't know what it's talking about | 18:28 |
| LjL | <minthos> LjL: people are getting annoyed ← yanno, maybe i shouldn't be the only one getting annoyed | 18:30 |
| LjL | <joerg> re bot pfizer spam: it's generally strongly despised in libera/FN when bots reply without being highlighted | 18:30 |
| LjL | and you awfully like to tell me what "should" and "shouldn't" happen and even what's "strongly despised" on my own channel | 18:30 |
| LjL | here's me being trigger happy again | 18:31 |
| LjL | fuck you | 18:31 |
| LjL | invite ozone, get me and the bot k-lined | 18:31 |
| LjL | then feel rightfully vindicated | 18:31 |
| LjL | everyone will be nodding that you're right and i was only be childish | 18:31 |
| LjL | so nobody's going to lose anything but the one who's childish and deserves it | 18:32 |
| LjL | go ahead | 18:32 |
| LjL | xx, thanks | 18:32 |
| LjL | it's not true, but thanks nonetheless | 18:32 |
| LjL | just let me list a few of the other parts of what happened that what i did was an overreaction to, aside from the mentioned <de-facto> just a short reminder: BNT162b2 was developed by BioNTech and probably the doses delivered in EU also produced by BioNTech | 18:40 |
| LjL | because i don't like it to sound like that single line caused this | 18:40 |
| LjL | and it's, as mentioned about other things you may find in the logs, not *fair* | 18:41 |
| LjL | <de-facto> just calling it Pfizer without even mentioning the original developer is a bit unfair in my opinion | 18:41 |
| LjL | <LjL> me calling it BNT won't change where the money went and came from | 18:41 |
| LjL | <de-facto> the correct name is BioNTech/Pfizer since it was a collaboration | 18:41 |
| LjL | <LjL> you know, what irks me is i'm probably just about the only person here who's made some effort to call it BNT at least when talking to you, to respect your view of it, but the one time i'm talking to an American and calling it "the wrong way", i get a lecture | 18:41 |
| LjL | it's been like a year that i've taken care to call it BNT and pretty much every time i've failed to do so there was this GNU/Linux type lecture. | 18:43 |
| minthos | some people will always complain about something | 18:43 |
| LjL | yes, and some people will also remind you "it's called BNT" every time you say "Pfizer" | 18:44 |
| LjL | but if my bot does it, then that causes a cascade of "should call ozone and get it k-lined" rather than "wait, how did someone annoy him to the point he did that" | 18:44 |
| LjL | if "some people" end up being "everyone meaningfully active on this channel", then maybe the channel has run its course, or i have | 18:45 |
| minthos | nah, just chill out | 18:45 |
| minthos | people suck | 18:45 |
| minthos | it's a fact of life | 18:45 |
| LjL | okay, then how about i remove this bot feature if de-facto also removes the equivalent human feature of pushing me towards using a term for something that's just not the term most of the world uses for it? at least the bot just notes the full name, if a bit repeatedly, without going as far as saying it's "unfair" and "incorrect" to call it otherwise | 18:49 |
| minthos | sounds reasonable | 18:51 |
| minthos | I'm sure joerg would agree | 18:51 |
| joerg | >><LjL> but if my bot does it, then that causes a cascade of "should call ozone and get it k-lined" rather than "wait, how did someone annoy him to the point he did that"<< chill, buddy! I did nothing like the former and actually did the latter. I won't annoy you by quoting myself right away. PM me if you want citations | 19:01 |
| LjL | well for the record, other things i believe you got wrong: | 19:04 |
| LjL | the Libera *guideline* about "not answering people with bots" is largely not against automated bot responses, which are more of a technical than a social thing; it's about support channels that go !factoid for just about everything that gets asked. and despite that guideline, some of the biggest channels on the network do *do* that | 19:05 |
| LjL | and ozone/sygin will generally avoid terminating bots *that are voiced* with extreme prejudice, because its intention is not to police how bots are used by their channel operators, but to stop general spammers. that's partly why Brainstorm was voiced here (before i devoiced him now) | 19:05 |
| LjL | and honestly you may not have been actually threatening to have ozone/sigyn join, you may not have actually meant that you could have had another bot say "Pfizer" until a k-line ensued, but... it came across that way to Dredd, apparently, and it still comes across that way to me | 19:06 |
| LjL | if i misunderstood your intentions, sorry. but i'm upset about all this and i think i had somewhat decent reasons at the start, and even more decent reasons after seeing the tone of the discussion that ensued after i left | 19:08 |
| LjL | de-facto[m] also said his intention wasn't to to argue against me but "this whole trend", but after he made his note, i said why i was calling it Pfizer, it could have ended there, instead of escalating to "unfair" and "incorrect" | 19:09 |
| LjL | bit disingenuous to say that Pfizer is unclear because they also have things like Paxlovid. BNT only makes one product?! | 19:09 |
| Arsanerit | AFAIK BioNTech only make one product so far. | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | I should probably get the Pfizer Tick-borne encephalitis vaccine. | 19:11 |
| LjL | now i'm not sure whether joerg left intentionally or not, but i was going to post: and if anyone still has a shred of doubt, of *COURSE* i knew this bot feature would be annoying. i may write bad code that "doesn't get peer-reviewed" as joerg said, but, and i'm only saying how i perceived it here, which may again not have been the invention, that just sounded patronizing. i'm an annoying idiot but not a *complete* idiot. i knew the bot feature would be annoying. | 19:15 |
| LjL | dTal didn't need to test that it doesn't even care about spaces around "Pfizer", because i had no intention to make this anti-feature discerning. i wanted to make the point that i making this kind of "note" every time i sleep on BNT's name feels nagging and annoying! | 19:15 |
| dTal | I've been summoned | 19:17 |
| dTal | y'all need to massively chill out | 19:17 |
| dTal | LjL: I fully appreciated the "feature" in the spirit it was implemented | 19:18 |
| minthos | LjL you certainly made your point, and to summarize I think the only real beef here is between you and de-facto[m] | 19:18 |
| minthos | the rest is just poor communication | 19:18 |
| minthos | of course I haven't read all the context because as I mentioned earlier, people suck :) | 19:19 |
| LjL | i can't possibly disagree that i need to chill out. i just don't like hearing it when it's used as a dismissal of my reasons. which for the record i don't think is the case in your case, dTal, i saw your virtual chuckling at the thing and GNU/Linux comparison etc, and *that* is a reaction i appreciate | 19:21 |
| LjL | minthos, yes poor communication may be it, but it extends more than just me and de-facto, because i've had this kind of situation with joerg, and other people | 19:21 |
| LjL | for example "you are right but you need to chill out" followed by leaving due to finding my lack of chilling out unacceptable (which he did last time, not sure if this time was intentional or a connection loss) is the kind of advice to chill out that i don't particularly appreciate, or at least that gives me very mixed messaging | 19:22 |
| LjL | let me give a completely unrelated example of how something i got told annoyed me, whereas it wouldn't have annoyed me had it been said in a slightly different way | 19:23 |
| LjL | i randomly happened to click on the #linux tab which i honestly don't do too often, and someone was asking a question in a bit of a weird english, and i thought maybe it would go unanswered because of the english, so i told them like "if i understand your question correctly, the answer may be the command 'which'" | 19:24 |
| LjL | hours later, i got a highlight from someone: "ljl, someoneelse, why are you suggesting 'which' when that's not POSIX and deprecated?" | 19:24 |
| LjL | i replied, okay, sorry, i won't suggest anything ever again | 19:24 |
| LjL | couldn't that have been "ljl, someoneelse, by the way though, 'which' is actually deprecated now, and not part of POSIX, so it may be more universal and reliable to suggest 'command -v'" | 19:25 |
| LjL | it says the same thing but in such a different tone | 19:25 |
| minthos | I'm certainly guilty of being blunt when diplomacy would have been a better approach | 19:26 |
| minthos | and there are many like me | 19:26 |
| LjL | blunt is not necessarily bad | 19:26 |
| LjL | but "why are you...?" is the sneaky kind of diplomatic | 19:27 |
| minthos | I don't mean to dismiss you in any way but the way I see it the only solution is to shrug it off and not let words spoken by retards on the internet affect you | 19:27 |
| LjL | it seems like asking a question on its face - so that's better, right? more diplomatic? | 19:27 |
| LjL | but the undertone is "are you insane? why are you doing that? it's bad, you're wrong, and you should know better" | 19:27 |
| LjL | the other thing, instead, just informs | 19:27 |
| LjL | it's more "blunt" actually if you will. because it just says the thing | 19:27 |
| minthos | ok, snarky then | 19:28 |
| minthos | I have been snarky many times too | 19:28 |
| LjL | minthos, i wouldn't call these people retards. that is blunt in a bad way. they are people i've spent the past two years talking to, and if i thought they were "retards", then i'd probably be LESS upset about all this | 19:28 |
| minthos | I think of everyone as retards including myself and people I respect, it makes life much easier | 19:29 |
| LjL | doesn't that make it become meaningless if it applies to everybody? | 19:30 |
| minthos | no, it puts everything into the right perspective | 19:30 |
| minthos | humans are barely evolved beyond chimps and gorillas | 19:31 |
| minthos | we have this big fancy neocortex that lets us do science and build abstractions but beneath we still have a limbic system to mess everything up for us | 19:38 |
| minthos | the limbic system is really dumb and really powerful and not at all suited for modern life | 19:42 |
| minthos | anyway I have to sleep, I'm not usually awake this late | 19:47 |
| minthos | good night | 19:47 |
| LjL | night | 19:51 |
| finely[m] | https://mobile.twitter.com/TheKaranMenon/status/1466912293380231168 | 20:02 |
| Dredd | <minthos> "humans are barely evolved beyond..." <- I largely agree with this 🤣 | 20:24 |
| finely[m] | "Proponents of including trade secrets within the scope of any IP waiver argue that it will not be possible to replicate some of the vaccines on the basis of the information disclosed in the patents alone" | 21:41 |
| finely[m] | https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/trade-secrets-remain-sticking-point-global-debate-over-vaccine-ip-waiver | 21:41 |
| Arsanerit | The poll (topic) appears to have expired | 22:03 |
| Arsanerit | oops | 22:03 |
| Arsanerit | it was removed already, never mind | 22:04 |
| ManKor | what's new? | 22:06 |
| Dredd | ManKor: since when? | 22:10 |
| ManKor | Since yesterday | 22:11 |
| Dredd | Not much then 😀 | 22:12 |
| Arsanerit | Yesterday in what timezone? | 22:12 |
| ManKor | gmt +0 | 22:12 |
| Dredd | One timezone to rule them all, and in the Greenwich, bind them | 22:16 |
| Dredd | ManKor: some early indicator that the R value for Omicron here in the UK is 3.5 and doubling it's share of overall cases every 2 days | 22:17 |
| Dredd | Which, you know, it isn't great | 22:17 |
| ManKor | Hope things get better | 22:18 |
| Dredd | But not to worry, we have policeman boris on the case | 22:18 |
| * Dredd uploaded an image: (504KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/xNGhnGocuikirpQmrLBpAokU/image.png > | 22:18 | |
| ManKor | hahaha | 22:19 |
| Dredd | Relentlessly hunting down all the Omicron cases | 22:19 |
| * enyc meows | 22:41 | |
| merpnderp | Any new news on Omicron? | 22:44 |
| Arsanerit | merpnderp: since then? 45 minutes ago? | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | *since when | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): These are the 1st lab data for neutralization, Omicron vs the D614G strain. An approximate 40-fold reduction overall, with heterogeneity in this small, but important sample. Certainly goes along with what we are seeing clinically to date in vaccinees and prior [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468334386407899137 | 22:49 |
| merpnderp | Arsanerit: I don't know. Yesterday? We have any real data on hospitalization rates? | 22:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Great credit to this team for quickly getting us Omicron lab neutralization data. The bright side is that there is incomplete immune escape from vaccination twitter.com/sigallab/statu… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468336579479441414 | 22:58 |
| merpnderp | Brainstorm: that's good news | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): For people who had Prior Covid plus vaccination, the preserved Omicron neutralization level (FRNT) likely reflects solid protection. Not seen with 2 doses of Pfizer vaccine, but would expect that a 3rd shot, with its marked effect on raising nAbs, would simulate [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468339655762276353 | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | Brainstorm: Note: Pfizer–BioNTech Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran) is the accurate name of the vaccine being administered. | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Brazil: +10250 cases (now 22.2 million), +274 deaths (now 616018) since 23 hours ago — Bahrain: +38 cases (now 277894), +17257 tests (now 7.5 million) since a day ago | 23:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Countries see signs of growing community Omicron spread: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Dec 07, 2021 As much as 2% of COVID-19 cases in Denmark might be caused by Omicron. → https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/countries-see-signs-growing-community-omicron-spread | 23:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: A first, small study suggests Omicron is a larger threat to Covid-19 immunity than other variants: A small, preliminary study has found a significant drop in how well vaccine-elicited antibodies target the Omicron variant [... want %more?] → https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/07/a-first-small-study-suggests-omicron-is-a-larger-threat-to-covid-19-immunity-than-other-variants/ | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch): First lab study on Omicron fits with observed data in South Africa:Substantial escape from neutralising antibodies -> increased risk of reinfections & breakthrough cases, but retained cellular immunity (not explored in this study) may mean reduced [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468347483793334279 | 23:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +8123 cases (now 34.7 million) since 18 hours ago — Guatemala: +544 cases (now 620435), +7 deaths (now 15999), +8493 tests (now 3.2 million) since a day ago — Albania: +393 cases (now 202295), +7 deaths (now 3122), +2793 tests (now 1.4 million) since a day ago | 23:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The first/preliminary Omicron neutralization data today, thanks to @sigallab, reinforce the need for an Omicron-specific vaccine, but even better one that is variant-proof, pan-sarbecovirus, to finally get ahead of evolution twitter.com/EricTopol/stat… → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468349442726133761 | 23:47 |
| sdfgsdfg | https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-party-boat-alert-after-two-likely-omicron-cases-20211208-p59fp9.html | 23:53 |
| sdfgsdfg | .title | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: From www.smh.com.au: NSW COVID: Two possible Omicron variant cases aboard Sydney party boat | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | sdfgsdfg: From www.smh.com.au: NSW COVID: Two possible Omicron variant cases aboard Sydney party boat | 23:53 |
| sdfgsdfg | wedding in norway, party boat in sydney | 23:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | I see a pattern here | 23:54 |
| sdfgsdfg | lmao | 23:54 |
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