joerg | Rudd-O[m]: me quoting from a paper, it doesn't make sense to me wehn you tell *ME* I were wrong and you got a better idea you read at some unspecified source | 00:10 |
---|---|---|
joerg | re » [23 Nov 2021 14:24:09] <Rudd-O[m]> <joerg> " » There is no evidence (and..." <- I've seen at least one paper « ff | 00:11 |
LjL | we're going for a "super green pass" now apparently | 00:13 |
LjL | i predict it's going to be a mess | 00:13 |
LjL | just mandate vaccinations like many other vaccines are mandated, end of story | 00:13 |
joerg | Rudd-O[m]: maybe tell de-facto or right away tell Derek Lowe » [23 Nov 2021 11:15:09] <de-facto[m]> .title https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/coronavirus-vaccines-and-cancer Derek Lowes statement about this « | 00:14 |
LjL | we're out of the time period when it would have been too edgy and too new to mandate it | 00:14 |
joerg | honestly telling :me_ » you're wrong « whn I just quote verbatim a Derek Lowe blogpost that confirms a former statement I came up with on my own. weird | 00:18 |
Dredd | joerg: they're muted now so no need to go back into it | 00:21 |
Dredd | 😉 | 00:22 |
* LjL misses the EU view on offloop | 00:25 | |
joerg | ooh missed that. Many thanks :-) much appreciated | 00:31 |
joerg | LjL: prolly the right idea, alas just too late now, won't helpus any sooner than February, so when 4th wave tapers off anyway | 00:35 |
joerg | the increased immunity and reduced R from boosters will help us, alas not enough | 00:38 |
joerg | also not fast enough on its own | 00:39 |
Dredd | I haven't found my Pfizer booster to have caused too bad side effects | 00:42 |
joerg | fun math exercide though: here a 30% unvaccinated are responsible for a 90% in ICU. Exercise case a: 85% vaccinated (there would be even synergetic other effects kicking in to help) - yeah if only... , case b: 0% are vaccinated... eeew scary. | 00:45 |
LjL | we have 90% vaccinated and yet they're pushing through measures to force the rest | 00:49 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +22982 cases (now 2.5 million) since 19 hours ago | 01:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +43825 cases (now 10.0 million) since 23 hours ago | 02:30 |
lastshell | update from my 2nd day arpm pain is not that bad | 04:02 |
lastshell | I thing was worst the 2nd shot the booster is ok | 04:03 |
de-facto | Pfizer? | 04:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +43579 cases (now 10.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +23042 cases (now 2.5 million), +54 deaths (now 19495) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +24422 cases (now 5.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +1809 cases (now 1.8 million) since 12 hours ago | 04:34 |
zutt | genera: our restrictions are just "recommendations" technically, but we're back to masks required, remote work, meetups/meetings/events limited to 20, etc basic stuff that we've had going for a long time now | 05:27 |
zutt | govt removed mask recommendation some time ago against the recommendation of the health & welfare institute.. soon as they did that people slowly stopped using masks and slowly started forgetting all the other stuff too | 05:30 |
zutt | %cases Finland | 05:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +12115 cases (now 1.6 million), +36 deaths (now 26705) since a day ago — India: +9283 cases (now 34.5 million), +437 deaths (now 466584) since 23 hours ago | 05:30 |
Brainstorm | zutt: Finland has had 178527 confirmed cases (3.2% of all people) and 1263 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of 17 hours ago. 7.8 million tests were done (2.3% positive). 4.3 million were vaccinated (77.3%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland&legacy=no | 05:30 |
Brainstorm | zutt: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Finland, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 05:30 |
sdfgsdfg | what's poppin | 05:43 |
sdfgsdfg | "Using mass media and political clout to tell the populace that refusers of medical treatment are "to blame or "killing grandma", is tyrannical" | 05:45 |
sdfgsdfg | wow that's so right | 05:45 |
sdfgsdfg | but here comes Nicole with her daily argument | 05:48 |
sdfgsdfg | 1- "Getting the jab is what's considered being responsible, being an adult!" | 05:48 |
sdfgsdfg | same as the grandma point, which is on point...... to be honest | 05:49 |
sdfgsdfg | 2- it's safe ! | 05:50 |
sdfgsdfg | what can you say if it's safe ? we have an entire industry built on IT security which is also laughable | 05:50 |
sdfgsdfg | things are as safe as our eyes can confirm | 05:51 |
sdfgsdfg | all you see is concerned mothers yelling around instagram posts about the safety of their kids nowadays, nationwide maccine vandate for babies would be a blessing for them lol | 05:56 |
sdfgsdfg | there must be a way to jab the babies before birth | 05:56 |
sdfgsdfg | I didn't know... antibodies are actually passed on to the baby. Hmmm ok | 06:00 |
sdfgsdfg | then we need after birth boosters | 06:01 |
sdfgsdfg | babyboosters | 06:01 |
sdfgsdfg | boost the babies after they're born. Ok I'm stopping now.. | 06:01 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Saxony, Germany: +8737 cases (now 439805), +46 deaths (now 10723) since 23 hours ago — Noord-Brabant, Netherlands: +3743 cases (now 381301), +6 deaths (now 3284) since 23 hours ago — Thuringen, Germany: +3237 cases (now 193419), +22 deaths (now 4847) since 23 hours ago — Brandenburg, Germany: +3221 cases (now 161072), +11 deaths (now 4052) since 23 hours ago | 06:32 |
finely[m] | COVAX has been a disaster. | 07:23 |
finely[m] | https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/pandemic-response-poorly-coordinated-former-nz-pm-helen-clark/13643636 | 07:23 |
Dredd | COVAX is the Gate's Foundation pushed scheme to give cheaper covid medicines to countries that can't afford them and milk all the rest for every dollar they can get? | 07:32 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +25949 cases (now 2.0 million), +104 deaths (now 32408) since a day ago | 07:35 |
finely[m] | Yes, COVAX was the grift by big pharma (help by the gates foundation) to stop COVID vaccine patents from being declared public domain and mandatory sharing of vaccine manufacturing knowledge to the third world. | 07:45 |
finely[m] | Turns out even with these obstructions, enough vaccines were produced to cover the entire world, but COVAX ended giving away a ton of vaccines that couldn't be used before they expired. | 07:45 |
Dredd | IMO covid patents should have been waived | 07:48 |
joerg | finely[m]: repeating it a zillionth time - waving pharma patents is of absolutely no use for corona vaccines, the patent letters are already public and nobody could stop the poor countries simply pirating them if they decided to do so. Sharing knowhow is another topic which is like... I'm asking NASA for the complete construction plans of their spaceships so I could finally build my own. Actually BioNTech for example DOES share knowhow to whomever asks for, | 09:29 |
joerg | by forming joint ventures, transferring personal with knowhow to set up and ramp up factories etc. The "mimimi you got patents which we want you to lose" wining is political bullshit by nitwits with no real clue of the problems involved | 09:29 |
joerg | Kenia (iirc) just had to discard vaccines because they expired in their shelf, they don't have the infra to *distribute* them to their people. And african official now claim money from first world to help with that. Up to anybody's own judgement if that's still "the rich western countries don't share the knowhow" | 09:34 |
joerg | anyway in short: the patents waiving is a massive red herring topic | 09:37 |
joerg | huge complete populistic misconception about patents: they are not a secret, they are public by definition since you have to tell poeple about what is patented, in public patent letters | 09:41 |
joerg | sorry, patent specification is the name | 09:43 |
aradesh | Rudd-O[m]: (regarding the covid conspiracy stuff from yesterday) yes more peolpe die from other things, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a serious serious problem when suddenly lots of people get ill with a new thing and fill up your hospitals | 10:05 |
finely[m] | <joerg> "finely: repeating it a zillionth..." <- WIPO would destroy any economy that tried. They probably wouldnt have to though - all modern free trade deals contain investor dispute mechanic that allow corporation to sue governments into the stone age.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/87a2fd7e4c6e481f3d98cf77fb0c5ef2f0fc240c) | 10:45 |
sdfgsdfg | and is it better to have people die from unknown reasons decades down the line | 10:47 |
sdfgsdfg | or various terminal illnesses | 10:47 |
finely[m] | Good on biontech for info sharing. I wonder if they would still be doing that if they hadn't had such trouble scaling up? Makes sense to get the widest possible pool of people involved to solve the difficulties of mass production. Almost like the proposed WHO knowledge sharing intititive that COVAX killed before it could start. | 10:49 |
sdfgsdfg | 5-10 year trials cover those, which is the difference between emergency use grant and the normal grant | 10:49 |
sdfgsdfg | if we can somehow let go of most of the people in half a generation's time, we'll save the planet and our species | 10:50 |
sdfgsdfg | you mention sacrifices | 10:50 |
sdfgsdfg | have a spoonful of higher intelligence lol | 10:50 |
sdfgsdfg | of the overlords... ofc. Not me, random observer here | 10:51 |
Bridgestorm | ❗ 地震预警 / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for Taiwan (just felt near Pizitou?) — Follow for updates (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 10:56 |
-Bridgestorm- 🏠 地震! Earthquake! 5.5 M tremor, registered by cocodayo_dev,yurekuru, with 7 reports, 1 early, occurred 3 minutes ago (09:55:11 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Hualien City, Taiwan (23.75, 122.0) ± 9 km, ↓10 km likely felt 200 km away (in 花蓮市, 吉安鄉, 新城鄉, 壽豐鄉, 秀林鄉…) by 277800 people with maximum intensity Shindo 3 → https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1463446289853861888 (Twitter) | 10:58 | |
finely[m] | Oh, modern is not actually sharing: | 11:05 |
finely[m] | "Moderna has thus far refused to participate in the WHO's effort" | 11:05 |
finely[m] | https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/10/07/critics-warn-moderna-plan-covid-vaccine-factory-africa-pr-gimmick | 11:05 |
finely[m] | I think you are arguing in bad faith. | 11:05 |
undefined_bob | sdfgsdfg: thats just not how those vaccines work. Its well known that this 'after x years you get sick from the vaccine' is just nonesense and not scientifically based | 11:11 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Poland: +28431 cases (now 3.4 million), +460 deaths (now 81688) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +43160 cases (now 10.0 million) since 18 hours ago | 11:31 |
sdfgsdfg | undefined_bob I'd quote this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLACpzGnFw | 11:45 |
sdfgsdfg | sums it up about how we progressed with aristotle galileo and newton, each one making the previous and everyone who believed them look like a b**** | 11:48 |
undefined_bob | sdfgsdfg: lol. yeah thats still not how it work. And no, you dont have secret insider knowledge. And no you are not special | 11:50 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +67590 cases (now 5.5 million) since 21 hours ago | 12:33 |
de-facto | joerg, do you know of a good upstream for covid testing data per federal state in germany? | 13:16 |
de-facto | "best" i found so far is https://ars.rki.de/Content/COVID19/Reports.aspx | 13:17 |
joerg | alas not | 13:17 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +305 cases (now 820004), +4 deaths (now 11513), +7590 tests (now 4.6 million) since a day ago | 13:42 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +8588 cases (now 970753) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +68230 cases (now 5.5 million) since 22 hours ago | 14:38 |
lastshell | Hey guys quick question my mom also got the covid booster but she likes to take omega-3 and ginko biloba for now she stop those but when she can take back again those supplements after the booster ? | 15:20 |
ottavio | Has anybody had side effects from the booster jab? | 16:29 |
Brainstorm | ottavio: At 2021-09-09 11:47:11 UTC, de-facto told you: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00248-6/fulltext "Clinical performance evaluation of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen testing in point of care usage in comparison to RT-qPCR - EBioMedicine" | 16:29 |
lastshell | ottavio I had arm pain but less than the first 2 shots (all 3 pfizer) | 16:32 |
ottavio | I had 2 AZ shots. The 1st was a nightmare, the 2nd absolutely nothing. | 16:33 |
lastshell | I have a cousin who got 2 AZ he mentioned something similar | 16:34 |
lastshell | not sure about the 2 AZ | 16:34 |
lastshell | you got fiber ? | 16:34 |
ottavio | fiber ... im what context? | 16:42 |
lastshell | for the vaccine ? | 16:42 |
lastshell | *fever | 16:43 |
ottavio | i had fever 12 hours after my 1st AZ and it lasted 3 days but nothing after the 2nd | 16:44 |
lastshell | got it | 16:46 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +23795 cases (now 2.6 million), +51 deaths (now 19545) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2193 cases (now 1.8 million), +32 deaths (now 29615) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +734 cases (now 10.0 million) since 21 hours ago | 17:32 |
joerg | AZ (flu-like shake and chills after 8h) + BNT (flu-like shake and chills after 6h) + BNT ... I'll tell you if after more than 6h any reactions kick in | 17:57 |
joerg | both so far lasted 12h | 17:57 |
joerg | already feeling a lil chill after three+6h | 17:58 |
joerg | lastshell: who told your mom to stop ginkgo and fats? I never heard of any interference with vaccination from both | 18:02 |
joerg | I just got the same recommendation as usual today: 2days no sports, no alcohol | 18:02 |
lastshell | they asked if we took some blood thiner | 18:03 |
lastshell | gingko is a natural blood thiner I thing | 18:03 |
joerg | so I think even if there was a reason to stopginkgo and omega-3, you could probably continue it after 3 days | 18:03 |
joerg | oooh, that's possible, yeah | 18:04 |
lastshell | ok today I did some exercise | 18:04 |
lastshell | but I got the jab in morning monday | 18:04 |
lastshell | just some resistance bands | 18:04 |
joerg | I guess that's safe | 18:06 |
lastshell | and some squats | 18:06 |
lastshell | but i checked my hart nothing above 130 | 18:07 |
lastshell | just 124 | 18:07 |
lastshell | I'm able to raise avobe 165 but no this 2 weeks | 18:08 |
lastshell | jsut light exercise | 18:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +12450 cases (now 5.0 million), +85 deaths (now 133415) since 23 hours ago | 18:34 |
squirrel | hi, any idea what "population" means in table 2 here? https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland | 18:45 |
squirrel | for "Deaths 21 days or more after first dose", i assumed it means all people who ever had one dose but the numbers are shrinking with time | 18:47 |
squirrel | also the numbers don't add to the whole population | 18:47 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +312 cases (now 1.6 million), +3 deaths (now 27961), +21002 tests (now 10.8 million) since a day ago | 19:05 |
LjL | squirrel, at a glance, i would suspect it means "... but before the second dose" | 19:05 |
LjL | haven't tried adding them up (yet) | 19:06 |
LjL | the total as of 24 september ends up at 39149565 for me | 19:09 |
LjL | %wa population of england over 10 year old | 19:09 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (England, United Kingdom | population/(10 years)): Result: 5.527 million people per year (2016 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+england+over+10+year+old | 19:09 |
LjL | as usual, Wolfram understanding things properly | 19:10 |
LjL | %wa population of england | 19:10 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (England, United Kingdom | population): Result: 55.27 million people (91% of total for United Kingdom) (2016 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+england | 19:10 |
LjL | can there be 16 million children under 10? hmm | 19:10 |
LjL | according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/281208/population-of-the-england-by-age-group/ it's more like 6.5m | 19:11 |
LjL | but, i've heard other people complain that the "population of england" is... highly variable depending who you ask, the census having happened a few years ago | 19:12 |
lastshell | LjL you know if is safe to consume ginkgo biloba after the booster ? | 19:22 |
LjL | lastshell, i saw your discussion, honestly i've no idea, but would it be a big deal to avoid it for a few days? | 19:24 |
lastshell | I guess will be fine | 19:26 |
lastshell | yeah mom will avoid from some days thank you LjL | 19:26 |
squirrel | LjL: hm that makes sense, thanks. | 19:27 |
squirrel | i wonder if that table says anything significant about dying after vaccines | 19:28 |
LjL | i will somewhat confidently say "no" | 19:30 |
LjL | there's not enough information | 19:30 |
LjL | cause of death is not specified, and if you compare among different time periods, the virus was also behaving differently | 19:30 |
LjL | if you compare the same days, then you will unsurprisingly find vaccinated people die at lower rates than unvaccinated ones | 19:31 |
LjL | it might be interesting to look at age ranges close to 10, but that one goes 10-59 instead, so that's moot as well | 19:31 |
squirrel | at a glance it seems that mortality during 21 days of the 2nd does is significantly and consistently lower than that within 21 of the first dose. this i find unexpected | 19:32 |
squirrel | between 1st vaccine and unvaccinated, there seems to be a lot of confidence range overlap | 19:33 |
LjL | there is no "within 21 days of the 2nd dose" | 19:35 |
LjL | there is "within 21 days of first", "after 21 days of first", and then "after second" | 19:35 |
squirrel | well, if there were, it would be showing even smaller numbers wouldn't it | 19:35 |
LjL | anyway, if i look at the most recent snapshot, i don't see much CI overlap | 19:37 |
LjL | 0.30.60.10.2 | 19:37 |
LjL | 5.412.80.81.4 | 19:37 |
LjL | 719.92.33.4 | 19:37 |
LjL | 2758.68.711.3 | 19:37 |
LjL | (Lower and upper confidence first for unvaccinated, then for fully vaccinated) | 19:37 |
LjL | they never overlap | 19:37 |
LjL | i don't know which number you mean by "between 1st vaccine" | 19:38 |
LjL | during the first 21 days after the first dose, you have *no* protection | 19:39 |
LjL | and you may actually have a dip in protection (some studies found that), i think likely because people don't know they have no protection, they think "they're vaccinated", and take some more risks | 19:39 |
squirrel | never heard of the no protection within 21 days | 19:41 |
squirrel | also there's no number "2758" anywhere? | 19:41 |
squirrel | anyway, i don't know enough to make use of this data to persuade someone that vaccines are relatively safe | 19:43 |
squirrel | especially someone who knows several people who died within days of getting a vaccine | 19:43 |
LjL | you never heard of it? it's right there in the graphs published on the phase 3 papers of the vaccines | 19:44 |
LjL | you cannot spot any difference within 14 days, and almost none within 21 | 19:44 |
LjL | antibodies take time to form (which is kind of the entire point of forming them in advance with a vaccine) | 19:44 |
LjL | and what is about 2758? O.o | 19:45 |
LjL | that's 27 *and* 58.6 | 19:45 |
squirrel | hum, my client glued them all together | 19:45 |
LjL | maybe i used a nonstandard space without realizing | 19:47 |
LjL | maybe this is better | 19:47 |
LjL | 0.30.60.10.2 | 19:47 |
LjL | 5.412.80.81.4 | 19:47 |
LjL | 719.92.33.4 | 19:47 |
LjL | 2758.68.711.3 | 19:47 |
LjL | i copypasted from the spreadsheet | 19:48 |
LjL | but now after adding some empty cells | 19:48 |
squirrel | but yeah never heard of vaccines being ineffective for so long. i assumed a few days | 19:49 |
squirrel | i pasted the numbers into a text editor and it works there | 19:50 |
squirrel | anyway, there's no overlap if looking at fully vaccinated but i would be assuming that having two doses is no more dangerous than having one? | 19:50 |
squirrel | oh well this numbers are useless | 19:51 |
LjL | squirrel, here the data about Pfizer https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 on page 12 or 2614 depending how you count, admittedly the graph shows a divergence after about 14 days, not 21, but other vaccines may be different | 19:51 |
LjL | squirrel, actually there are more side effects found after the 2nd dose generally with mRNA vaccines | 19:51 |
LjL | the third is generally similar to the second | 19:52 |
LjL | (also that graph is from before Delta so i would suspect that there may be no difference found after a few more days with Delta) | 19:52 |
lastshell | with the booster you become more sarcastic :P | 20:14 |
lastshell | just kidding all same | 20:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +8527 cases (now 5.1 million), +38 deaths (now 87904) since 23 hours ago | 20:32 |
LjL | <CarlSagan> [Ars Technica - Science] Pandemic skyrockets in Europe; COVID is the No. 1 cause of death https://arstechnica.com/?p=1815680 2021-11-24T17:51:39 | 21:16 |
de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(2100674-5/fulltext | 21:34 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Effectiveness of an inactivated virus-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, BBV152, in India: a test-negative, case-control study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases | 21:34 |
de-facto | .titel https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02000-6/fulltext | 21:35 |
de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02000-6/fulltext | 21:35 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Efficacy, safety, and lot-to-lot immunogenicity of an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (BBV152): interim results of a randomised, double-blind, controlled, phase 3 trial - The Lancet | 21:35 |
Arsanerit | Why is Europe now apparently the worst affected region? | 22:04 |
de-facto | freedom day experiment? | 22:07 |
Arsanerit | In Russia? | 22:08 |
Arsanerit | Russia seems to be worst affected now | 22:08 |
Arsanerit | death rates in Russia have been very high already since July http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom;Russia;France;Germany;Italy;Netherlands;Austria&byPopulation=yes&logScale=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&legacy=no | 22:08 |
Arsanerit | more than 3× higher than the ones in Germany or UK are right now | 22:09 |
de-facto | russia got many with distrust in vaccinations | 22:09 |
de-facto | also they had it colder earlier | 22:10 |
ublx | getting cold in russia now. everyone spending more time indoors? | 22:10 |
de-facto | it seems incidences rise from northeast to southwest? | 22:10 |
ublx | something like that | 22:11 |
de-facto | maybe also some mutations in Delta we did not put attention to? what if there is a mutation in the other regions (e.g. NSP not S-protein) | 22:11 |
ublx | not yet very apparent in france,spain,portugal | 22:11 |
Arsanerit | deaths in Russia were already really high even in July, when cases and death rates in Germany and France were very low | 22:12 |
Arsanerit | In July death rates in Russia were 20 × higher than in Germany | 22:12 |
Arsanerit | And why are cases in Ireland so much much higher than in Sweden? Sweden doesn't even have mask mandates. | 22:13 |
Arsanerit | Swedish vaccination rates are no better than Germany and worse than UK or Ireland, and Sweden doesn't have a lot of restrictions, yet their rates remain low. | 22:14 |
ublx | huge reservoirs of immunity and/or people risk-balancing against Sweden's lack of restrictions? | 22:16 |
Arsanerit | I thought maybe Swedish are naturally more introverted than Irish ("pub-goers"), but I don't know if that explains the differences. | 22:17 |
ublx | maybe their testing regime/uptake is lacking | 22:18 |
Arsanerit | but reported death rates are low too | 22:20 |
ublx | don't know. don't recall seeing anyone Swedish in here either | 22:23 |
Brainstorm | Updates for India: +7876 cases (now 34.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2257 cases (now 1.8 million), +24 deaths (now 29621) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +23785 cases (now 2.6 million) since 21 hours ago | 22:43 |
aradesh | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10237945/England-suffer-35-000-Covid-hospitalisations-caught-virus-study-suggests.html | 23:11 |
aradesh | probably means no christmas lockdown in the UK then | 23:11 |
de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.10.21266166v1.full-text | 23:37 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Unexposed populations and potential COVID-19 burden in European countries | medRxiv | 23:37 |
squirrel | LjL: sorry disconnected. re: pfizer data; i'm not sure if something like this can persuade an antivax. i was hoping to get something from "all deaths following vaccinations" as covid itself is measured in "all deaths following infection" | 23:38 |
LjL | both of them are 100% without a timeframe | 23:40 |
squirrel | not sure how else to get into their mind | 23:40 |
squirrel | "without a timframe"? | 23:41 |
LjL | what is "following"? everybody dies eventually | 23:41 |
LjL | COVID is measured as "all deaths while positive", if anything | 23:41 |
squirrel | well 21 days, or 28 days as per bbc | 23:41 |
dTal | why did I read the comments on that Daily Fail article | 23:42 |
dTal | "Covid is the new bogus paradigm to replace climate change." - 19 upvotes, 0 downvotes | 23:42 |
squirrel | in uk it's "all deaths within 28 days of a positive covid test" | 23:43 |
LjL | squirrel, yeah it can be that, bit of a shortcut | 23:43 |
LjL | which goes both ways by the way | 23:43 |
squirrel | that's what you get on bbc radio 4 6 o'clock news | 23:43 |
LjL | "skeptical" people say it inflates the deaths because people who die of other causes also get included | 23:43 |
LjL | but guess what, there's also a lot of people who die in ICU after months of struggling with COVID | 23:44 |
LjL | meaning longer than 28 days | 23:44 |
squirrel | i think this is a good statistic but it's only comparable with itself | 23:45 |
LjL | anyway, i don't know off hand where to find the exact info you stated, probably because in most ways that matter it's not very meaningful. i can sort of see why to an anti-vax it could be a meaningful comparison, for their worries, but in 21 days or so you basically don't get to experience the vaccine efficacy, so most things aren't measured in that timeframe | 23:45 |
lastshell | only 18% have the booster in US | 23:55 |
lastshell | I try to find the source of this claim | 23:55 |
LjL | 8% have had it in Italy | 23:56 |
LjL | not sure "only" is warranted | 23:56 |
squirrel | wait, im stupid | 23:57 |
squirrel | for my purposes it's actually great that in 21 days you don't feel the vaccine effect | 23:57 |
squirrel | since vaccine efficacy is not what they are worried about but dying from it | 23:58 |
squirrel | i need more sleep | 23:58 |
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