| nixonix | .title https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj3321 | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.science.org: Broad betacoronavirus neutralization by a stem helix–specific human antibody | 00:03 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/nycnymd/status/1436092313600724995 theyre doing it anyway... | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: George C Ellis (@nycnymd): "Eric, Why has the #CDC #FDA not approved #BoosterShots for the older HCWs and our older patients who got their #COVID19 shots Dec/Jan/Feb. Older patients and pharmacies are [...] | 00:14 |
| nixonix | "employers with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforce is fully vaccinated or require any unvaccinated workers to produce a negative Covid test at least once a week. The requirement could carry a $14,000 fine per violation | 00:36 |
| nixonix | "Employees working in health care facilities that receive Medicare or Medicaid reimbursement will also be required to be vaccinated | 00:37 |
| nixonix | somebody said, the last one would be good, because those hc providers have more presonnel that dont want to vax, than those that dont receive them. and providers dont want to mandate them, because they might lose them | 00:38 |
| twomoon | why does biontech wanna jab kids now when we know the vaccine will be nearly useless? | 00:48 |
| twomoon | or am i missing something? maybe it's because the vax plus infection-induced antibodies is stronger than the either effect alone? | 00:49 |
| Raf[m] | twomoon: Why do you think it's useless | 00:53 |
| twomoon | what does he mean by "more effective against mutant strains"? | 00:53 |
| twomoon | i think he doesn't realize that effective usually is used to denote something good | 00:53 |
| Raf[m] | Lower effectiveness does not translate to useless | 00:53 |
| twomoon | yeah you're right | 00:54 |
| twomoon | the vaccine protects against key portions of the spike protein | 00:54 |
| twomoon | and it is highly likely through random walking that the next variants will be more similar to the Alpha variant | 00:54 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/new-sars-cov-2-variants-have-changed-pandemic-what-will-virus-do-next check "antigenic map" around half way down | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.science.org: New SARS-CoV-2 variants have changed the pandemic. What will the virus do next? | Science | AAAS | 00:59 |
| nixonix | Mu would be in the right corner, i think | 01:02 |
| nixonix | upper right | 01:02 |
| de-facto | with Delta spreading so fast, do you think a variant with a distinct ancestor lineage from Delta would me more likely to come next? | 01:04 |
| de-facto | or would the next variant emerge from Delta breakthrough just because of the amount of bruteforcing? | 01:05 |
| nixonix | gammavax might have the best chances to work for any new variants. if needs to have a single spike, and use exactly those in the chart. i would go with multispike, or modified | 01:05 |
| nixonix | yeah, from delta most likely | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Unvaccinated are 5X more likely to catch delta, 11X more likely to die → https://is.gd/3fgnud | 01:06 |
| nixonix | but who knows, it could happen anywhere, from any variant. but because delta is already that transmissible and theres highest numbers of it, it would be the best bet | 01:07 |
| de-facto | well yeah, but would we not have assumed the very same about ALpha before Delta was spreading? | 01:10 |
| de-facto | in South America circulating variants had about twice as many mutations on S-protein at times when in Europe Alpha was the dominant variant, e.g. last winter | 01:19 |
| nixonix | i dont remember what kind of variants india had at the time, with its huge population. i thought in the fall and winter, that SA variant would spread in europe, before it started to look it cant compete against alpha | 01:19 |
| de-facto | so i guess they are already further apart from Wuhan by bruteforcing | 01:19 |
| nixonix | and alpha wasnt a big thing in south america with lots of infection. but now delta starts to be | 01:19 |
| de-facto | i wonder if the next variant would emerge from there, e.g. if one of the mutants from South America is infectious enough that it may outcompete Delta | 01:19 |
| de-facto | didnt they just introduced Delta too there? how does it hold up against the fitness of the locally breeded variants? | 01:20 |
| nixonix | and delta is kicking their local variants ass everywhere | 01:20 |
| de-facto | is it? | 01:20 |
| de-facto | i did not look at the data yet | 01:20 |
| nixonix | yeah, those countries where ive seen data. sequencing is spotty | 01:20 |
| nixonix | in costarica cases are increasing, but i dont know if there is sequence data from there. colombia and ecuador, delta is winning | 01:21 |
| de-facto | so delta may spread faster because immunity from local variants may not cover it, but also maybe because of its generic fitness advantages (furin orf7 etc) | 01:21 |
| nixonix | in some countries theres not much it yet probably | 01:21 |
| de-facto | question is if its also possible the other way, e.g. if south american variants spread easily in a delta immunized population (or alpha or wuhan) | 01:22 |
| nixonix | i dont think reduced immunity (because it comes from P.1 or something) is a big factor | 01:23 |
| nixonix | the immunity level in population would need to be high, that those more evasive variants would beat delta. and vaccine protection for infection wanes so fast, it doesnt look like it happens for awhile | 01:24 |
| de-facto | https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global?c=S1_mutations | 01:25 |
| nixonix | but sure it could at some areas. not likely Mu will be dominant in many countries in the near future. when we get better vaccines some day, it would have more chances | 01:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://outbreak.info/location-reports?loc=BRA&selected=Delta&selected=Alpha&selected=Beta&selected=Gamma | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From outbreak.info: outbreak.info | 01:35 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1435020716341084163 | 01:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): "Updated fits on GISAID lineage freqs for Colombia & Ecuador. Delta taking over with Mu (B.1.621) having growth rate disadvantage rel to Delta in both countries of 6% [...] | 01:38 |
| nixonix | outbreak doesnt show any sequences for peru | 01:39 |
| nixonix | ah, it wasnt peru but colombia and ecuador | 01:40 |
| nixonix | or maybe, we get high immunity for some period, when it has burned through everybody fast | 01:45 |
| nixonix | denmark just removed all the restrictions | 01:45 |
| nixonix | they have high vacc coverage and highish amount of cases during the last few months, so they have a lot of immunity currently, esp among not-old | 01:46 |
| nixonix | first Mu would need to get there, succesfully start to spread, and then there's a delay that depends on transmission speed difference. i dont hold my breath to see if Mu takes over there | 01:48 |
| nixonix | first show me a country in south america that has lots of delta, but Mu beats it. or just show me some decent sequencing coverage there, and im good | 01:50 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.25.457693v1 | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Protective activity of mRNA vaccines against ancestral and variant SARS-CoV-2 strains | bioRxiv | 01:51 |
| de-facto | https://covariants.org/per-country <-- look at colombia Mu kicks ass there, Delta ... not yet so much | 01:54 |
| de-facto | but then their incidence went down https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/colombia/ | 01:55 |
| de-facto | so Delta was introduced after their Mu peak, basically at the falling edge of the peak in Colombia | 01:56 |
| nixonix | i think its because of little sequences, it just looks like that. apparently those viral and biological immunologists use some models that consider things like population sizes on area, variant prevalences there etc | 01:58 |
| nixonix | so while they might be wrong, its probably better check what they think. if they disagree with each other, then i guess it could be anything | 01:59 |
| nixonix | *epidemiologists | 02:00 |
| nixonix | balloux blocked wenseleers in twitter over some argument. who thought it was funny | 02:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/ofPfJQ2 https://i.imgur.com/SUYhEL1.png | 02:07 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Colombia: Evolution of SARS-CoV-VoCs - Album on Imgur | 02:07 |
| de-facto | nixonix, tried to put the curves over each other with roughly the same time axis | 02:08 |
| de-facto | Mu is the yellow area, Delta is the Green | 02:08 |
| de-facto | but yeah only few sequences in Colombia there | 02:09 |
| nixonix | or should have been evolutionary biologists and virologists... | 02:10 |
| nixonix | probably lots of uncertainty in that wenseleers view too then | 02:12 |
| nixonix | and sequencing delays can be long, and vary by area etc | 02:13 |
| nixonix | they have those pcr tests recognizing variants. maybe they have information based on them too | 02:14 |
| lastshell | israel cases now are dropping | 02:27 |
| lastshell | https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/covid-continues-to-shrink-in-israel-serious-cases-in-decline-1.10197714 | 02:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.dailynk.com/english/sources-large-numbers-north-korean-soldiers-die-hospitals-suspected-covid-19-patients/ (im not believing these nk news, but who knows, some may be true) | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailynk.com: Sources: Large numbers of North Korean soldiers die in hospitals for suspected COVID-19 patients - Daily NK | 02:31 |
| de-facto | .title https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3879488 | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From papers.ssrn.com: Neutralization of Autoantibodies Targeting G-Protein Coupled Receptors Improves Capillary Impairment and Fatigue Symptoms after COVID-19 Infection by Bettina Hohberger, Thomas Harrer, Christian [...] | 02:39 |
| de-facto | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.uk-erlangen.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/ansicht/detail/medikament-gegen-autoantikoerper-hilft-bei-long-covid/ | 02:43 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.676554/full | 02:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | Retinal Microcirculation as a Correlate of a Systemic Capillary Impairment After Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Infection | Medicine | 02:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Denmark lifts all Covid restrictions, crediting high vaccine uptake → https://is.gd/Vc9TI2 | 03:54 |
| nixonix | maybe they will have a farewell to pandemic party too | 04:06 |
| nixonix | you read those ace2 autoantibodies? i had some links, but maybe posting when that due interested in RAAS and stuff yesterday is around too | 04:08 |
| nixonix | so some rona virion targetting abs just happen to bind to those G-protein receptors too? some epitopes mimicing them? and is it rare? | 04:13 |
| nixonix | apparently that frontiers article is something else, and more common | 04:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Bloom Lab: @jbloom_lab: R to @jbloom_lab: Finally, for reference here is the excellent article by @fastlernerer @MaraHvistendahl @maiahibbett that @angie_rasmussen refers to in her original Tweet: https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/ → https://is.gd/NF3nQO | 04:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Denmark lifts all Covid restrictions, crediting high vaccine uptake → https://is.gd/bYewBc | 05:39 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1436316025163636740 this is weird O.o | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "The UK's mix and match booster program https://www.ft.com/content/a03b8c21-7412-460f-9196-8c41ac80c6eb @SebastianEPayne @SarahNev @HannahKuchler @mroliverbarnes The data are [...] | 05:49 |
| LjL | are jthey just finding excuses to use AZ? | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Alberta Acted Like COVID Was Over. Now Its Health Care System ‘On Brink of Collapse’ → https://is.gd/dE6ELn | 05:49 |
| grys | LjL: bit of a pity if it wanes after 6months, better if it took a year, then can be done as part of flu shots | 05:51 |
| LjL | grys, yeah i'm feeling quite down about all this (and other things too, but that's off topic) | 05:59 |
| LjL | depending who you ask these vaccines may be highly protective or... meh after a couple of months | 05:59 |
| LjL | and we won't have boosters here for many months, 2022 at minimum | 05:59 |
| LjL | i foresee another winter lockdown | 06:00 |
| grys | so you imagine restrictions ease, then around three months later the same garbage starts up again | 06:00 |
| LjL | yeah | 06:00 |
| grys | here where? | 06:00 |
| LjL | italy | 06:00 |
| grys | why dont you get boosters? | 06:00 |
| LjL | i dunno, they are giving boosters to very vulnerable people in december, then in january and february to healthcare workers, everyone else... at some later point, maybe | 06:01 |
| grys | do you expect another vacc technology (inactivated; unattenuated; protein based; etc) will have longer lasting protection? | 06:01 |
| LjL | perhaps they prefer to wait for the variant-specific boosters | 06:01 |
| LjL | i don't think so | 06:01 |
| grys | so you mean this virus is special, no protection lasts long | 06:01 |
| LjL | it might be technically longer lasting but it's also proving to be quite low to begin with | 06:01 |
| LjL | (except for protein based, i.e. Novavax) | 06:01 |
| LjL | virus might not be so special, there are many virus we don't do much about | 06:01 |
| LjL | the other coronaviruses that are not very serious, we don't vaccinate against them, and natural immunity doesn't last so long | 06:02 |
| grys | i mean even if someone can argue that mortality rate is not super high, still it spreads like mad, so just letting it run isn't a valid tactics | 06:02 |
| LjL | i tend to agree, but i really don't know what to even propose anymore | 06:02 |
| grys | maybe everyone has to create outdoor working spaces, but even then i'm not sure the R<1 can be achieved | 06:03 |
| LjL | "zero covid" strategy like china, australia or new zealand are just not being tried here | 06:03 |
| LjL | and at this point i'm not even sure if they're a good idea after reading some things about australia | 06:03 |
| LjL | creepy | 06:03 |
| grys | umm australia nsw abandoned zero covid goal already | 06:03 |
| grys | dunno about nz | 06:03 |
| LjL | well, i didn't know they abandoned it | 06:03 |
| LjL | but this thing i read, although news.com.au i think it known as a shoddy source | 06:04 |
| LjL | is perplexing to say the least | 06:04 |
| grys | 1000 new cases every day and the government openly says they're aiming to be within ICU limits, not aiming to bring it to zero | 06:04 |
| grys | as far as i understood at least | 06:04 |
| grys | if they wanted to bring it to zero, the restrictions would be tighter in my opinion | 06:04 |
| LjL | https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-limits-residents-of-lockeddown-tower-block-to-six-beers-per-day/news-story/0e387ceccee145a611ddb6e38872d3d5 | 06:04 |
| LjL | are they seriously "requisitioning" buildings, them being the health authorities, and searching anything that gets taken into them? | 06:05 |
| LjL | if this article is not just saying falsehoods, this is... just about what i imagine China would be doing | 06:05 |
| LjL | control on the small details of private life, sheesh | 06:06 |
| LjL | anyway i must sleep | 06:06 |
| grys | nini | 06:07 |
| grys | ive not heard of it, i wasnt in that place and none of my friends were either | 06:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Joe Biden, Xi Jinping discussed origins of Covid-19 probe: White House → https://is.gd/L4DG8q | 06:10 |
| de-facto | USA got 165k daily new infections and daily 1400 fatal outcomes | 06:19 |
| grys | I'm wondering whether high antibodies level is required. Or there is some other mechanism that the body uses to store its knowledge that 'this virus is bad' | 06:20 |
| de-facto | not a good start into the winter, need more containment and vaccine protection | 06:20 |
| de-facto | memory B-cells migrate into bone marrow | 06:20 |
| de-facto | they will get reactivated as soon as the antigen is discovered again and directly initiate new antibody production | 06:21 |
| de-facto | t-cells also will remember even smaller parts of the epitopes hence will also recognize variants with more antigenic drift | 06:21 |
| de-facto | so yeah body will remember for long time, but the pathogen will undergo antigenic drift as its being selected for evasive fitness | 06:22 |
| de-facto | there were neutralization evaluations with one of the other endemic human coronaviruses 229e with blood sera collected many years ago and they found that current variants are not really neutralized with the old serum anymore | 06:25 |
| de-facto | .title https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009453 | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From journals.plos.org: A human coronavirus evolves antigenically to escape antibody immunity | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UAE Lifts Ban on Entry From India, 14 Other Countries For Fully Vaccinated Passengers → https://is.gd/YHX09z | 07:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Gorillas test Covid-19 positive at zoo in Atlanta → https://is.gd/L7kXOC | 08:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | September 11, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/r3dm7s | 09:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Unvaccinated Covid Patients Cost the Us Health System Billions of Dollars → https://is.gd/sZfgf4 | 10:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Joe Biden will get Covid-19 booster once widely available, says White House → https://is.gd/KNQ9IL | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO calls for global governance against pandemic → https://is.gd/a1Dak3 | 12:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China reports 25 new COVID-19 cases, up from 17 a day earlier → https://is.gd/dgYcqC | 12:59 |
| darsie | How many new cases does China not report? | 13:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 26 out of the 27 Lancet scientists who trashed theory that Covid leaked from a Chinese lab have links to Wuhan researchers → https://is.gd/fC9ZjL | 13:51 |
| bn_mobile | Are people still parading the “escaped from lab theory”? | 14:18 |
| specing | bn_mobile: china has the ability to allow inspections. they chose not to. In my eyes they are guilty | 14:24 |
| * specing applies guilty-until-proven-innocent against powerful actors | 14:24 | |
| bn_mobile | If there’s any truth to it it’s probably because they fear being found guilty of incompetence but guilty of developing it for evil use seems a bit far fetched? | 14:31 |
| bn_mobile | Virologists also did studies on it & determined it didn’t have markers of being man-made | 14:33 |
| bn_mobile | BTW, the link above is about as silly as saying “unbelievable news: virologists have associations to other prominent virologists” | 14:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan: U.S.-funded experiment in China posed biosafety risks but did not cause Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say. → https://is.gd/QkgFdf | 14:54 |
| bn_mobile | I’ll admit Daszak’s financial conflict of interest is troubling though, but at least he admitted it, as per paper publications in journals | 14:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: Designer Michael Kors holds first live fashion show since pandemic → https://is.gd/J62ank | 15:04 |
| bn_mobile | Lol, why is that news in “Health”? | 15:15 |
| bn_mobile | Anyone else getting “worn-out”/depressed from this never-ending pandemic? | 15:41 |
| jacklsw | me | 15:41 |
| jacklsw | malaysia is doing worse, can't even recover and getting higher cases per day | 15:42 |
| bn_mobile | One would think it would eventually work its way through the population & at some point stop increasing? | 15:43 |
| bn_mobile | Has anyone that has gotten the initial variant & survived gotten the Delta or newer variants? | 15:45 |
| jacklsw | probably there are | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US could authorize Pfizer COVID-19 shot for kids age 5-11 in October: Report → https://is.gd/6jxtE0 | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Saturday 11 September 2021 Update → https://is.gd/SdEC8n | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer and BioNTech will soon seek clearance for vaccine use in children 5 and older. → https://is.gd/6rv5cR | 17:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: On the durability of vaccines, including covid (simplified)https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-vaccines-last-a-lifetime-heres-why-covid-19-shots-dont-11631266201?mod=searchresults_pos1&page=1 by @mcjomcg Focuses on neutralizing antibodies; the memory T cell response is helping to provide durable protection from Covid pneumonia → https://is.gd/KvjFku | 17:43 |
| lastshell | bn_mobile what I do no to get depress is exercise and ignore the news one week | 18:22 |
| lastshell | nothing we can do will change the course | 18:23 |
| lastshell | bn_mobile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJxRRcQtFDA he got covid, then vaccine, then delta | 18:24 |
| hulivili | Moderna said Wednesday it is asking the FDA to authorize a 50 microgram dose, half the dosage of the first two shots. Some in the government are leaning toward authorizing the 100 microgram dose, the people said, because of concerns a lower-dose booster might not offer a durable enough boost | 19:06 |
| hulivili | where are us vax stats by age group? i think it was a bit different than in europe, where coverage has been very high among 40+ yo or so, but in usa if i recall, ages between 40-65 or something have been mediocre too | 19:16 |
| hulivili | .title https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1436400415294304256 data like this is skewed currently, because it rarely is adjusted for time from 2nd shot | 19:21 |
| Brainstorm | hulivili: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "10) Where else have we seen fewer breakthroughs with Moderna? DC health department also noticed it a month ago… much much lower than J&J, and somewhat lower than [...] | 19:21 |
| hulivili | and since roll-out was faster for pfizer, i think, the difference to moderna doesnt look so huge | 19:21 |
| hulivili | .title https://seekingalpha.com/news/3738430-moderna-developing-four-vaccines-against-covid-variants-of-concern-shares-up-6 | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | hulivili: From seekingalpha.com: Moderna developing four vaccines against COVID variants of concern; shares up 6% | Seeking Alpha | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Why do prior vaccinations with measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) or tetanus-diphtheria-pertussis (Tdap) provide some protection against Covid severity?https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(21)00294-4T cell breadthhttps://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340(21)00294-4@MedCellPress → https://is.gd/i65rkS | 19:50 |
| ublx | autoantibody ideas, towards suggestion of (a) mechanism for long covid: | 19:57 |
| ublx | https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.582166/full | 19:57 |
| ublx | https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0257016 | 19:57 |
| ublx | (23 March and 3 September respectively) | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Thousands of medics rallied in Warsaw for better pay and conditions, criticising the government for failing to compensate them for the added workload during the pandemic. The march through central Warsaw included a minute of silence for 500+ medical workers who have died of Covid → https://is.gd/3E9wBI | 20:43 |
| hulivili | here they got a compensation. a thank-you card they could print themself. is there any country where they got some decent compensation? | 20:48 |
| hulivili | "cryo-EM studies to show that binding of ACE-2 to SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induces conformational changes in both proteins, which we postulate may form new epitopes that provide targets for autoantibody formation | 20:50 |
| de-facto | ublx, https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.uk-erlangen.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/ansicht/detail/medikament-gegen-autoantikoerper-hilft-bei-long-covid/ | 20:52 |
| de-facto | .title https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3879488 | 20:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From papers.ssrn.com: Neutralization of Autoantibodies Targeting G-Protein Coupled Receptors Improves Capillary Impairment and Fatigue Symptoms after COVID-19 Infection by Bettina Hohberger, Thomas Harrer, Christian [...] | 20:53 |
| hulivili | a hypothesis why not U-shaped risk curve (only slightly, since <4yo in higher risk than >4 yo kids: "Soluble ACE-2 can explain the paradox of high mortality in the elderly without a similar raised infant mortality rate | 20:53 |
| hulivili | just noticed g-protein in this: "Sun et al. argued that ACEI use im pairs the ACE/angiotensin II/angiotensin-1 receptor pathway, therefore, impairing the integrity of the ACE2/angiotensin 1–7/MAS (MAS-related G protein-coupled receptor). A disruption of the ACE2/angiotensin 1–7/MAS pathway could lead to decreased production of ACE2, decreasing | 20:54 |
| hulivili | chances of SARS-CoV-2 entering the cell | 20:54 |
| hulivili | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11886-020-01291-4 old, though | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | hulivili: From link.springer.com: Outcomes in Patients with COVID-19 Infection Taking ACEI/ARB | SpringerLink | 20:55 |
| nixonix | pwr22 these might interest you | 20:57 |
| nixonix | "Recent research has indicated that soluble ACE-2 is the most significant risk factor for cardiometabolic mortality and could be relevant in COVID-19 | 20:58 |
| de-facto | or cleaved S1? | 20:59 |
| nixonix | you mean both shedded ace2 and s1 in plasma forming those complexes? | 20:59 |
| nixonix | btw wont explain myocarditis etc, because young have less soluble ace2 | 21:00 |
| de-facto | hmm ok | 21:01 |
| de-facto | ace2 and s1 probably would not fit together as both would fit on the cellular ACE2 receptor right? | 21:02 |
| nixonix | but when old people have more soluble ace2, maybe that protects cleaved spikes to attach on CM cell's surface ace2 - which could then be targets for autoantibodies and the actual binding is hypothesized to trigger some adverse cellular effects by some team... | 21:04 |
| de-facto | hmm | 21:05 |
| de-facto | interesting idea | 21:05 |
| nixonix | so soluble ace2 would be protective in this case, when vaccine gets in vein and goes to pulmonary circulation. and young males, hmm why not females... well, something else is involved too, and this could still be the solution (: | 21:06 |
| nixonix | testosterone or estrogen somehow. what else is different? | 21:08 |
| de-facto | immune system? | 21:10 |
| nixonix | "Here we demonstrate that E2-treated NHBE cells expressed lower levels of ACE2 mRNA compared with the vehicle-treated controls | 21:11 |
| nixonix | Estradiol (E2), also spelled oestradiol, is an estrogen steroid hormone and the major female sex hormone | 21:12 |
| nixonix | in airway epithelial cells, though. no idea if its the same in heart muscle cells | 21:12 |
| nixonix | but we have a nice novel idea anyway, pretty much ready | 21:13 |
| nixonix | there might be some genetic suspectibility involved, like for those autoantibodies | 21:16 |
| nixonix | what was the occurence of myocarditis after AZ? | 21:19 |
| nixonix | it could well be lower than with mrna after 2nd dose, since AZ's second dose doesnt do much | 21:19 |
| ublx | "Within 48 h after a single BC 007 treatment, GPCR-AAbs were functionally inactivated and remained inactive during the observation period of 4 weeks. This observation was accompanied by a constant improvement of the patient’s fatigue symptoms, and taste as well as retinal capillary microcirculation." | 21:19 |
| ublx | quite a result, de-facto. hope to see that reproduced and generalised | 21:19 |
| nixonix | and its "slow-release" vaccine anyway, so we cant compare occurencies after 1st doses either... | 21:20 |
| nixonix | it some type of immune reaction for sure, so they really should study is it with vaccine in pulmonary circulation or without. that could be shown with luciferace gene that i think pfizer still has in spike, unless they removed it when they changed something... | 21:21 |
| nixonix | what did they change? can the information be found? | 21:22 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aay3638 | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.science.org: A noninflammatory mRNA vaccine for treatment of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis | 21:23 |
| de-facto | nixonix, could that be of help with the autoantibodies? | 21:23 |
| ublx | hmm, that BC 007 treatment paused at 4 patients as of august while clinical trials are undertaken | 21:25 |
| nixonix | what those Tregs do then, regulate interferons or something? | 21:26 |
| nixonix | "promotes bystander suppression of autoreactive T cells against other myelin-specific autoantigens | 21:28 |
| nixonix | anyone remembers if something similar is suggested to be involved with sars2 pathology? | 21:29 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.fiercebiotech.com/research/biontech-ceo-turns-covid-19-vaccine-s-mrna-tech-against-multiple-sclerosis | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.fiercebiotech.com: BioNTech CEO applies COVID-19 vaccine's mRNA tech to multiple sclerosis | FierceBiotech | 21:33 |
| de-facto | i think auto-antibodies will soon be a big topic with COVID | 21:33 |
| de-facto | nixonix, yes i think so, some papers suggested MS can be introduced by COVID | 21:34 |
| nixonix | An autoantigenome of 348 proteins from A549 lung cells is identified by dermatan sulfate affinity, of which 291 have been found to be altered in SARS-CoV-2 infection and 198 are known targets of autoantibodies | 21:36 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7340057/ | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Multiple sclerosis following SARS-CoV-2 infection | 21:38 |
| nixonix | so there could be hugh differencies for lc patients, which protein is responsible for their symptoms... | 21:38 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405650220300782 | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.sciencedirect.com: A first presentation of multiple sclerosis with concurrent COVID-19 infection - ScienceDirect | 21:39 |
| de-facto | no statistics, only single cases, but maybe a subject for accumulating more stats about i guess | 21:39 |
| nixonix | one of the signs, that in the long, long run, research accelerated by sars2 might be more beneficial than the harm it caused. those possible vaccines stopping damage caused by MS | 21:42 |
| de-facto | yeah its going to be a leap in biotech and medicine, we can already observe that | 21:44 |
| nixonix | also inverstor money in biotech has increased a lot (while new vaccine developers seem to suffer lack of it, but theres only limited market and hundreds of candidates, if not more) | 21:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: The Delta wave in Southeast Asia@OurWorldInData Vaccines make a difference, but seen well when the % of total population is very high (i.e. Singapore)Also covered @TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/asia/what-the-delta-variant-did-to-south-east-asia/21804360 → https://is.gd/kmXmwb | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Convalescent Plasma Does Not Reduce Risk of Intubation, Mortality: The antibody profile in the blood of patients who have had the virus is extremely variable and this may modify the response to the treatment. → https://is.gd/g1Ym5I | 22:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Denmark lifts all COVID-19 restrictions as Fauci says cases are 16 times too high to end the pandemic in US → https://is.gd/2XLnVm | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: This week, the @NEJM will be publishing these and more data on 3rd Pfizer shots for > 1 million Israelis age > 60, according to @CNN @elizcohencnn https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/health/covid-booster-israel-data-fda-meeting/index.html and @IsraelMOH's Alory-Preis and @MiloLabWIS will be presenting @US_FDA's advisory committee → https://is.gd/UpAbKH | 23:00 |
| nixonix | we used to have 300 times lower than usa currently (at summer 2000), and the pandemic still didnt end... | 23:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: The number of religious exemptions for kids' vaccinations in Florida is at an all-time high → https://is.gd/wTptp4 | 23:32 |
| ublx | "At the same Tuesday WHO meeting, they confirmed that new variants will be named after stars and constellations once Green letters run out." | 23:34 |
| ublx | great. now covid ruins star gazing | 23:34 |
| de-facto | lol really? | 23:35 |
| de-facto | why dont they stick with PANGO lineages? | 23:35 |
| ublx | https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1433120091646930944 | 23:35 |
| de-facto | what will new headlines read like with such names? "Cancer mutant wave dominates Virgo Voc"? | 23:39 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1436794740620488707 3rd dose vs 2 only: 11x vs infection, 15x vs severe. might be biased more or less, but looks like protection vs severe wanes fast too | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "This week, the @NEJM will be publishing these and more data on 3rd Pfizer shots for > 1 million Israelis age > 60, according to @CNN @elizcohencnn [...] | 23:52 |
| nixonix | moderna after 2nd, i havent found evidence neut would be 2x vs pfizer or something like that. binding abs were pretty close in one study, but do we believe it correlates well with neutralizing abs | 23:55 |
| nixonix | "There has not been a head-to-head comparison of the neutralizing antibody titers elicited by BNT162b2 versus mRNA-1273, but such a study could provide important context for our results" | 23:56 |
| nixonix | they used to say something like "influenza studies have shown, that over 5x titer reductions are significant for protection" | 23:58 |
| nixonix | well, much less is, if decay half-life is 50 days, and protection waning half-life is around 68 days. so just double titers gives over 2 months more (ab-wise) | 23:58 |
| nixonix | so when they also used to say, theres good correlation between binding and neut abs, maybe it was "good" like under 5x... | 23:59 |
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