libera/#devuan-dev/ Wednesday, 2021-09-01

masonplasma41: is a good source of that kind of thing.00:00
plasma41mason: I don't disagree. The Internet Archive is *awesome*!00:01
golinuxWe can't have users installing the latest beowulf and NOT going to libera for help00:02
masonA move for the future might be linking to a resources page rather than putting stuff that depends on outside resources in the announcement.00:03
golinuxWhy make it harder for users to access info?  I often won't click to get additional info.  Maybe that's just me00:04
golinuxThe notes here still point to leenode00:06
golinuxThat's almost more important to correct that the web announcement.00:06
jushuri think its better to refer to resource page by default, and only announce changes in release logs00:07
plasma41In email I'm generally in favor of including information inline rather than including a link when doing so doesn't substantially increase the length of the message.00:07
golinuxjushur: You are welcome to join the documentation project.  :)00:08
golinuxAnd how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  Currently anyone referencing our official documentation is being sent to leenode.00:09
jushurwell this is me on a good day, stuff can get crazy on a bad one xD00:10
golinuxIs anyone keeping track of what's going on over there?  Are there shadow devuan channels functioning there?00:11
golinuxjoerg: ^^^00:12
plasma41golinux: I have nothing to gain from checking.00:12
golinuxbut devuan does00:13
joergleenode? no idea00:13
golinuxIt just hurts to write the real name of the now impostor.00:14
joergcould somebody run a grep -ri "freenode" /documents/devuan  maybe?00:15
golinuxThose channels are listed in historical documents but sadly also in some current documentation.  We have been discussing how to deal with it.  So folks have possibly gone to freenode and in noman's land00:18
joergI didn't touch peenode since... they nuked services00:18
golinuxbut have devuan channels been recreated there00:18
joergfor sure00:18
golinuxand no one is monitoring them?00:19
joerganybody ignorantly doing a /join #devuan there will "create" the channel00:19
joergI don't care if they have chanops, founders, a topic, users, whatever. leenode is a death zone for me, steer clear by all means00:20
UsLspeaking of which: looks like they pulled the plug. But I guess it mus be some other issue:
joergnetsplit is a trustworthy overview that might give some insight regarding channels ezc on leenode without touching it directly00:26
joerg>>From July 2021 no more connections to freenode could be established. The network was accordingly classified as historic.<<00:28
UsLthe network is refusing connections then. Well, that is certainly the nail in the coffin.00:30
masonIt could just be refusing unencrypted connections.00:30
jushurthey activly ip banned a loot of "internet" its not down.00:30
joerg/msg alis list freenode00:32
joergdon't be fooled, those are LIBERA channels related to freenode00:34
jushurwhat matters is how we handle it now, ignore those servers. and we activly keep people on the proper path..00:37
joergsed -i 's/freenode/libera/g' devuan/docs/00:40
joerg[1 Sep 2021 00:15:05] <joerg> could somebody run a grep -ri "freenode" /documents/devuan  maybe?00:41
joergmaybe ask libera staff, they might be willing to help, contribute and mentor00:44
Xenguyjoerg, I ran your query on the 'documentation' repo, and it comes up clean, hrm00:46
joergand eventually I need to finally run sth similar to above mentioned sed job across the logbot filenames and scripts and config files00:46
Xenguyjoerg, Yeah, a few people have mentioned that, would be great it there was a way to patch that path00:51
Xenguygolinux, Strange, even the Beowulf release notes are coming up clean here, i.e. don't mention 'freenode'.00:51
XenguyCurrent working theory re: Release Notes:  version 3.0 does reference 'freenode'; version 3.1 does not.00:59
jushurhmm geting some lag, guess someone didnt like me.01:02
fsmithredhas anyone tried loggin into freenode devuan channels?01:16
fsmithredto see what's going on?01:17
* fsmithred goes off to answer his own question01:17
fsmithredI can't log in.01:22
joergXenguy: the chanlog URL/path?01:22
masonfsmithred: They require encrypted logins.01:23
joergfsmithred:  >>From July 2021 no more connections to freenode could be established. The network was accordingly classified as historic.<<01:24
fsmithredI've got ssl and sasl enabled01:24
fsmithredit's just gone?01:24
masonjushur spoke to this earlier01:24
masonlots of blocking but still up01:25
joergfore me it's long gone. The question is which relevance it has to devuan01:25
joergnobody wants to login to leenode, the question is what's needed so nobody does accidentally01:26
fsmithredI just wanted to see if anyone was hanging out in devuan channels01:26
masonfsmithred: :* NOTICE * :*** You must use TLS/SSL and authenticate via SASL to connect to freenode please visit in order to create an account. SASL Configuration: - Webchat:
fsmithredyeah, that's the message I keep getting.01:28
fsmithredSASL fails01:28
fsmithredI assume they deleted my account01:28
masonThey deleted all accounts, yes.01:28
golinuxfsmithred: Maybe you can correct it here?
fsmithredyeah, I can do that01:29
fsmithredwhat should I put?01:29
fsmithredjust irc.libera.?01:29
golinuxI checked out  Somehow that message doesn't compute to have a billionaire saying it01:30
golinuxAsk Xenguy how he's doing it01:30
joerggosh, could you please avoid mentioning detailed instructions how to join a deprecated rogue network in here?01:31
golinuxActually all addresses are here
fsmithredwhat am I changing on fdo?01:32
fsmithredfound it01:32
fsmithredright. change nothing. it already says IRC channel: #devuan #devuan-dev on libera.chat01:34
joergnote that on peenode the above instructions for libera would not only earn you a ban, also your channel gets hijacked and you get removed from ACL01:34
joergI really don't see why we need instructions here how to join peenode01:35
fsmithredhere because I asked. Not in any docs.01:36
* golinux goes off to egg foo yung01:36
fsmithredI can just replace freenode with
fsmithredin these two lines:01:36
fsmithred       #devuan (freenode) - general discussion about Devuan01:36
fsmithred       #devuan-arm (freenode) - specific support for ARM01:36
joergfsmithred: sounds good01:37
golinux - shouting (but not too loudly) on one of the Devuan IRC channels:01:57
golinux       #devuan (freenode) - general discussion about Devuan01:57
golinux       #devuan-arm (freenode) - specific support for ARM01:57
golinux3 lines01:58
golinuxSorry seeing double obviously01:58
masonHrm, we'll want to fork podman for Chimaera. It defaults to systemd as a cgroup manager but will accept other stuff, but the baked-in default will need to change. Same with logging - defaults to journald but has a knob.01:58
masonI'm going to see if I can get a sane rebuild using cgroupfs and syslog.01:59
mason(podman is something I actively want for my own use)01:59
golinuxThat is something that has already been discussed iirc01:59
masonOh, hrm. In meeting notes?02:00
masonOh, neat. Looks like it's already resolved?!?02:01
golinuxSeems like there is a fix there02:01
golinuxDoes anyone know why rrq has been absent from these channels?02:04
masonlooking at logs, and will email him if there's nothing obvious02:05
masonSaw him a day ago, give it take. Will email.02:06
masonrrq: o/02:34
rrqI think znc got upset by some chat network service.. should be back now (for a while)02:35
masonOur fix for podman is beautifully minimal and elegant. It's just
golinuxrrq: Missed you!03:03
* rrq been too busy newlisp-ing to observe disconnect ;)03:08
masonrrq: My nine year old want to learn programming, so she's working through Land of Lisp.03:09
masonWe got a second copy so we could go through it together.03:09
masonAlso, newLISP is unfortunately named given that it's thirty years old and things like Clojure are newer. Just saying. :P03:09
rrqyeah; "newlisp" is just a convenient scripting tool with lisp-like language03:10
masonThen again, I suppose people could poke fun at Common Lisp for including "Common"03:10
masonHrm, newLISP looks like it has some of the same strengths as Chicken Scheme.03:12
rrqlet's you do stuff you'd consider using bash for, but need a bit more of data manipulation ability03:12
rrqlike, if you want to find the outline boxes for characters in a bitmap..03:13
* mason struggles to parse that.03:14
masonLike, looking at a bitmap and identifying boundaries for individual characters?03:14
* mason doesn't feel smart any more.03:14
* rrq exploring an OCR idea based on regression matching for character feature vectors, and I don't want to invest the time of a proper C coding frameowrk.. using newlisp for quick-and-dirty exploration03:17
rrqusing bash would be tricky wrt the data manipulation03:18
bgstack15I would just go "apt search ocr"03:18
rrqbeen there, done that03:18
masonrrq: You're not trying to defeat captchas, are you? =narrows eye=03:25
rrq.. ah; reminds me that newlisp can be run in the browser .. hmm03:27
onefangAh the irony, defeating captchas with a bot.03:32
bgstack15Devuan meet tomorrow, 02 September, at 20:30 UTC. Pad is here:
gnu_srsHi, a question about bug closing: Do I have to close both bug #xx and bugs #yy, #zz, etc merged with #xx explicitly?19:28
LeePenNo, closing any one of the merged ones will close the rest.19:32
gnu_srsLeePen: I have now pushed eudev-3.2.9-10 to unstable. Can you take a look. And how can I issue a build (forgot how)?19:45
gnu_srsFound the link of Jenkins Autobuild Infrastructure at
gnu_srsAnyway, I'll wait for your (and others) comments.19:59
LeePengnu_srs: Thanks. Generally looks fine to me.20:25
LeePenA couple of small points: why urgency high?20:26
LeePenThe convention for d/changelog is to indent the line under the * bullet point.20:26
LeePenSince you are the de-facto maintainer, would you own the Maintainer field in d/control?20:27
LeePenIn general, I would use separate commits for different issues rather than squashing them together.20:32
LeePenIt makes review and reverts easier.20:33
LeePenBut that is just me, others may well differ.20:33
gnu_srsLeePen: Urgency high due to that bug #598 has severity grave.20:55
gnu_srsRegarding indentation, I see that that went wrong. Should I change?20:56
gnu_srsSeparate commits would be nicer I agree. I should have made the commits twice, but was lazy.20:58
gnu_srsRegarding the Maintainer:  I'm reluctant to change that. Especially when upstream is soon gone...20:59
gnu_srsI see a small problem: Change and commit for bug #598, and then change and commit for bug #600. How to handle the changelog? Still using the same version 3.2.9-10??21:07
LeePengnu_srs: Yes, fix the indentation if you can be bothered. dpkg-parsechangelog doesn't seemt o mind, but it would make it more consistent.21:58
LeePenThe way *I* work is to do single commits for particular issues and then update the changelog as a separate item.21:59
LeePengbp-dch can help manage that.21:59
LeePenAlternatively, start the new changelog version with release=UNRELEASED and add a new * bullet point in the commit that addresses the issue.22:00
LeePenThen finalise the changelog by changing release to unstable and add your signature.22:01
LeePenI think it is a matter of taste which of those to prefer, but they keep commits clean and on topic.22:01

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