libera/#devuan-dev/ Friday, 2021-07-16

gnu_srs1Howdy: Maybe supporting non-merged-user as default would be a win for Devuan:00:55
gnu_srs1see and replies, like:00:55
gnu_srs1the TC decision does indeed specify that we will implement merged-/usr using merged-usr-via-aliased-dirs.00:55
rrq"aliased-dirs" ?00:56
golinuxDon't we already support non-merged-user?00:57
rrq"aliased-dirs" -- is that kiddie speak for "links"?00:57
fsmithredyes we support it and it is the default00:59
gnu_srs1So Devuan installations does not have merged-usr as default, good! But that is still an option?01:01
fsmithredin expert install you get a checkbox01:04
fsmithred"no" is pre-checked01:04
gnu_srs1Maybe we should make a difference her as compared to Debian, that would make more users to adopt Devuan?01:08
gnu_srs1see e.g.
gnu_srs1See also:
rrqis this now outdated?
rrqand this is not applicable to debian anymore?
rrqalso outdated?
masonRandom note, I just noticed that #debian-derivatives exists on OFTC, and I've added it to my list of haunts. I don't know if it'll be useful to us or not.04:39
bgstack15Well, Debian abandoned LSB, so why not FHS as well?05:21
bgstack15And actually based on that page rrq linked, "It is now recommended to have /usr on the  root partition /, otherwise it could  cause some trouble at boot time."05:21
bgstack15So in other words even /usr (presumably for /usr/bin and /usr/lib) is essential, so there's no difference between /bin and /usr/bin, to Debian.05:22
bgstack15But then I'm one of those hacks who hasn't cared too much about UsrMerge one way or another. I wish for stability, but I guess I know where to look if for some reason my $PATH is busted.05:23
bgstack15But in the discussion today we debated the policy of Devuan. I didn't hear, "We are Debian but without UsrMerge."05:24
yetiis that no longer optional in the installer?05:27
yetideBIan's installer?05:27
rrqno, not in debian installer05:31
masonyeti: IT's available in debootstrap, but not the installer itself.06:15
yetinot even in expert mode?06:49
yetithen "We are Debian but without UsrMerge." should be put very near to the without-systemd-line06:49
yetiwhat di they smoke?  diesel exhausts?06:50
yeti      o06:50
golinuxIt was at the top of the Release Notes when it was first implemented.06:52
yetiI always thought it were at leat optional in expert mode of the deBIan installer... but maybe I only dreamed it...06:57
rrqnote for buster netinstall; you'll have to go C-A-F2 and create /target/{bin,sbin,lib,lib32,lib64,libx32} by hande before installing the base system07:13
rrq(too many e e)07:13
yetinuts!   if at all the FS gets redefined, it should even be less eggs in one bag...07:16
masonI feel like I'm missing something. Here:
masonThey say: "With the merged /usr directory we can offer a read-only export of the vendor supplied OS to the network, which will contain almost the entire operating system resources."07:20
masonI'm guessing the intent would be for the initramfs to contain all the moving parts for mounting this up, and if there's any sort of network disruption, game over.07:20 opposed to the reason why there's a split in the first place, which allows for a cohesive minimal system that can access network resources on its own.07:21
masonThe other funny bit is "Myth #6: A split /usr is Unix “standard”, and a merged /usr would be Linux-specific"07:22
masonTheir answer is this: "Fact: On SysV Unix /bin traditionally has been a symlink to /usr/bin. A non-symlinked version of that directory is specific to non-SysV Unix and Linux."07:22
masonThe funny thing there is that *they're also moving /sbin* which invalidates that reasoning entirely.07:22
parazydfsmithred: So I would say it's because of this:
parazydIf you didn't change it to i38609:40
fsmithredparazyd, thanks. It looks like it's working now. (squashing)13:24
fsmithredWill it work if I move that into the blend config, where I already have to change stuff for each arch? Or does it have to be sourced before the blend?13:25
parazydfsmithred: I'd recommend just changing the config file $arch locally depending on what you're building13:28
fsmithredwhich config file?13:28
parazydI could rework it a bit, but zero time atm13:28
fsmithredI might try moving it into blend config13:29
fsmithredwill I have to move the test for kernel choice, too?13:29
fsmithredit's at the bottom13:29
fsmithredactually, I think the answer to that is yes. I did move it into blend config but not out of live-sdk/config.13:30
fsmithredso the kernel was chosen before the arch definition was changed.13:30
fsmithredNope: [W] load(): required setting is blank: arch13:58
parazydThis is in line 51 in live-sdk/sdk14:00
parazydOne sec14:00
parazydThis patch should work for your usecase14:01
parazydAlong with the config file changes14:01
fsmithreddoes that need to be in the .blend file or can it be in the blend config file?14:06
parazydThis is in the sdk file (the one that you source)14:08
parazydcd path-to-live-sdk && curl | patch -p114:08
fsmithredyeah, and the req gets moved to another file14:08
parazydIt'll first just check for $os14:09
fsmithredso just remove 'arch'14:09
parazydah nvm I made a mistake14:09
parazydYeah you can just remove the $arch check14:09
fsmithred (*) Done! Thanks for being patient!15:23
fsmithredI modified the test so that I have to comment/uncomment a line so that minimal-live gets 686 and desktop-live gets 686-pae. It's better to have that in my config file so I don't have to change the top-level one. (But I did anyway 'cause some package is missing in chimaera.)15:32
fsmithredok, and that package is back in chimaera. firmware-linux15:32
fsmithredlooks like we should not install firmware-linux by default15:35
fsmithredcase "$arch" in15:35
fsmithred# for minimal-live15:35
fsmithred#i386)  extra_packages+=(linux-image-686) ;;15:35
fsmithred# for desktop-live15:35
fsmithredi386)  extra_packages+=(linux-image-686-pae) ;;15:35
fsmithredamd64) extra_packages+=(linux-image-amd64) ;;15:35
fsmithredwrong paste, sorry15:35
fsmithredfirmware-linux Depends: firmware-linux-free, firmware-linux-nonfree (= 20190114-2)15:35
fsmithredchimaera desktop-live test isos are up:
fsmithredor use your favorite iso mirror17:29
gnu_srs2Question: Do the ISOs have non-merged-/usr as default and an option to use merged-/usr when entering the expert menu?17:44
fsmithredthe live isos do not have merged /usr and do not give you the option17:45
fsmithredthe installer just copies the live system to hard drive and makes it bootable17:46
fsmithredit's refractainstaller, so there's no expert install (or there's no non-expert install, depending on your POV)17:46
gnu_srs2fsmithred: That's OK with me. What about the other ISOs?17:47
fsmithredthe installer isos give you a choice in expert and choose non-merged for the non-expert.17:47
gnu_srs2Good :)17:48
fsmithredI should say 'default to non-merged' in regular install.17:48
gnu_srs2Debian is loosing again...17:48
fsmithredToo bad, but we always need to blood, and that'll help.17:48
fsmithredto blood/NEW blood17:49
golinux(fsmithred is picking up my typing habits)18:00
fsmithredmy fingers are sneaking past my eyes and doing their own thing.18:01
golinuxWelcome to my world.  Sometimes I type word salad . . .18:01
golinuxIt doesn't get better.18:02
fsmithredthe only advantage to not seeing is that when you type word salad, I can usually read it.18:09
fsmithredgolinux, checkout the desktop-live iso. I was able to patch desktop-base in the build, so the menu icons are back.18:17
fsmithredafk, bbl18:25
golinuxWill do that shortly!18:53

Generated by 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!