libera/#devuan-dev/ Monday, 2019-09-02

XenguyWhat's the major linux distro that has a fantastic wiki?06:02
XenguyArch I believe.  It's just a super resource...06:02
XenguyI would not rule out the value of a good wiki, to centralize distro knowledge, when it's done well06:03
XenguyPowered by MediaWiki06:11
sasquatch <<< not so funny06:12
XenguyOK I'll bite sasquatch06:12
XenguyAnd BTW you seem whiny most recently; what's the problem?06:13
sasquatcha wiki that#s mostly ignored just doesnt make sense06:13
XenguyBeing ignored implies lack of usefullness, to me06:14
XenguyIf it doesn't offer relevant information, then yeah, what's the point?06:14
sasquatchwhich boils down to needing a critical mass of writers/proofreaders/... to keep it gounf06:14
XenguyWell sure06:15
sasquatchand that's not there yet06:15
XenguyI mean, I'm in, if the interest is there06:15
XenguyCount me in06:15
sasquatchI just deleted my account06:15
XenguyI love writing stuff like that, and I do like the wiki model...06:15
XenguyLike I said, you're getting whiny, and for what reason?06:16
sasquatchwriting in markdown+git is ok too06:16
XenguyRelax, and float downstream06:16
sasquatchit is dyyyyyying...06:16
XenguyThis is not...06:16
sasquatchlater in the text06:16
XenguyAnyhow, it's an easy to learn, minimal markup, so not much of a barrier to entry06:17
sasquatchI'll rejoin when one doesnt feel so alone in the wiki06:17
XenguyOK brother, I'm down...  Where do we start?06:17
XenguyI like the idea of standing on the shoulders of giants06:17
XenguyThat Arch wiki has a well deserved reputation06:18
XenguySo that makes it a natural model as a starting point06:18
XenguyMaybe we could look at it, and decide what is genius, and what isn't?06:19
sasquatcha forum that offers a wiki page per thread would be an environment that would invite to summarise the threads results without copying senseless detours...06:19
XenguyTake the good point anyhow06:19
* Xenguy tries to understand...06:19
XenguyThere's a forum already, yes?06:19
XenguyI think that is separate from the project of a wiki06:20
XenguyAgain, check out Arch Wiki and then we will talk again I'm sure06:20
sasquatchyes... but I think forum and wiki should merge somehow06:20
XenguyAha, I see06:20
XenguyI'm not so sure they should...06:20
XenguyForum issues are like bug reports, and their solutions...06:21
XenguyIt allows people to converse about technical issues...06:21
sasquatchsome threads claim to be HOWTO like06:21
XenguyNow the wiki, that's more just a pure knowledge base, with good documentation06:21
XenguyThat's true06:22
sasquatchbut such stuff should be rewritten as wiki text06:22
XenguyWell, certainly the wiki authors could spot good tips on the forums, and then capture that in the wiki, it makes sense06:22
sasquatchand all boils down to the count of ppl doing this06:23
sasquatchmaybe devuan just needs a bit more growth06:23
XenguyLike I say, I'd be interested in the wiki concept...06:23
XenguyIf we had a blessing from someone to take whatever current wiki exists, and start to work it, I'd be willing to put in some time on that06:24
XenguyAha, will /join06:24
sasquatchok... I'll add it again too... but I'll kill some other items from my todo list before I touch the wiki again06:25
Xenguysasquatch: Your not there yourself06:25
EvilhamXenguy, sasquatch: did you see my recent email about documentation and wiki usage on devuan-dev?13:52
Evilhamthere are a couple issues with, one is that it's not a thing that is official from the project13:53
Evilhamthe other one being that those things are super spread out in many places and in many cases duplicated13:53
Evilhamso, tbh, I'd propose: let's get the things that can be useful out of and put them together with the rest of the documentation-like resources under one unique thing13:54
Evilhamit'll be easier to contribute (IIRC friendsofdevuan accounts have to be vetted by $someone and that can take some time vs using a gdo account)13:55
Evilhamand also easier to have an overview of wth is where13:55
XenguyEvilham: Makes sense to me, and as I mentioned somewhere, Arch Wiki has a rather good reputation, so I'd be inclined to seek inspiration from their setup as well.14:11
XenguyBut no, I didn't see the recent email you mentioned.14:12
Evilhamyup, arch has a bunch of wiki contribution sthough, so exacrtly the same wouldn't work14:12
XenguyTrue, I looked at it briefly yesterday, and they claim to have thousands of people contributing (perhaps not simultaneously, but still), which is rather impressive, if true.14:17
fsmithredand we have what, half a dozen maybe?15:08
XenguyNot sure, but yeah, a lot less I assume.15:38
fsmithredOne potential problem with allowing anyone to edit is that you might get people who should not be writing documentation.15:40
fsmithredWe had one that wrote so badly it was impossible to fix it.15:41
XenguyFor sure15:42
XenguyFortunately I can write decent documentation; it's just a matter of time and effort, and therein lies the rub...15:43
XenguyAs I have mentioned previously, I've learned that I'm a shitty volunteer, meaning that I'm not really good doing things out of a sense of 'duty'; I really need to have my heart in the game for anything to get done.15:44
XenguyIf I'm not actually interested in an activity, I'll probably end up not doing it.15:45
fsmithredthat's ok - you get better results if you're interested15:45
XenguyBut with that caveat in mind, I would be willing to have a look at the wiki work, and see what happens.  Can't hurt to try.15:45
fsmithredand since we're a volunteer group, that's pretty much what everyone does15:46
XenguyI always rather liked the wiki concept, and have used them in the past.15:46
XenguyFair enough15:46
enycfsmithred: the 'WARNING: Device /dev/sda not initialized in udev database even after waiting 10000000 microseconds.'  etc etc is certainly intermittent, doesn't happen every boot .....19:07
enycmay be more common with beowulf // newer kernel 5.2.0-2-  maybe,  but not sure there19:08
enycudev + init scripts race condition or something19:08
fsmithredI was getting it with 4.1919:10
fsmithredand I was getting it when chrooted into the installed system. Installing grub.19:10
fsmithredAnd I messed around with mounting more things in the chroot. I think maybe /run/udev made it go away.19:11
fsmithredmounting that to the host19:11
enycsome systemd-dependency  within  udev?19:11
enycwhat causes it to be mounted?19:11
enycnot just in chroot scenario19:12
fsmithredswitch-root in init, I think19:12
fsmithredat boot, that is19:12
fsmithredI'm not sure if that's the error I was getting when the resume file in initrd had a non-existent uuid in it19:13
enycin my case, not a uuid, but an existant /dev/mapper/[crypted-device-name]19:13
fsmithredenyc, I googled the error message and I'm reading bug reports for lvm2. It seems that the problem gets fixed in one version and returns in the next.21:03
enycfsmithred: hrrmph!21:16
enycfsmithred: might this warrant a version-bump/change in beowulf before release?21:16
fsmithredwould help to know what the actual cause and fix are.21:20
fsmithredmaybe a backport21:20
fsmithredthe version in ceres might be OK21:20
fsmithredwell, I thought I'd try a quick backport, but the build-deps include systemd.21:24
enycfsmithred: which version? i build it on debian box and can try it out21:42
enycfsmithred: (can try it out on beowulf machine that gives the fault often)21:42
fsmithredenyc: lvm2=2.03.02-321:44
fsmithredin ceres. I guess build for buster (=beowulf)21:45
enycfsmithred: on the case ...21:45
fsmithredcool, thanks.21:45
enycuerm, buster already has  2.03.02-321:47
enycas does beowulf21:48
fsmithredlet me check again21:48
enycand bullseye[ceres]/sid[unstable] is the same, no newer21:48
fsmithredoops. You're right. I didn't see that.21:48
fsmithredso that's the version you have?21:49
enycyes, on beowulf21:49
enycii  lvm2           2.03.02-3    amd64        Linux Logical Volume Manager21:49
enycwasn't installed on buster but installed and is the same ver21:49
fsmithredok, someone suggested adding rootdelay=5 to boot command21:49
fsmithredand someone else added sleep 5 to the udev init script21:50
enyco argh what a mess ;p21:50
fsmithredyeah, I think quality control has gone down over the years21:51
enyci still wonder, if some interaction means that   systemd users "don't experience the problem"21:51
fsmithredaccording to bug reports I've seen, the problem exists with systemd, too.21:52
fsmithredenyc, try the rootdelay. Since it doesn't happen every time, it could be due to different spin-up times.22:23
fsmithred(assuming your disks spin)22:24
enycfsmithred: they do but this happens on reboot without respin22:26
enycand not on every boot22:26

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