libera/#devuan-dev/ Friday, 2019-08-30

rrqandy5995: if you don't mind; I'd prefer not start using the gitlab issue system for discussion purposes. but #34: I'd agree that multiple branches are not really needed, and #28 that the wiki is a repository already (it just doesn't tell you :))00:40
rrqafaict, it requires the "markdown" format, though possibly "asciiidoc" would be available if you name the file wisely (not sure).00:43
andy5995rrq: I don't mind, but where should ongoing discussions take place about issues? Is that what the pads are used for?01:08
golinuxMostly on irc.01:09
golinuxI second rrq's request for fewer issues.  All the email is getting really annoying01:10
golinuxAh . . . there's the wiki link.01:10
golinuxI think I'm caught up.01:12
andy5995rrq: I think I could clone the repo with that link you gave me, but I wouldn't have any write access to it. Is there a way people could fork it the way a regular repo is forked? So merge requests could be made by anyone without write access?01:22
EvilhamThats what the webui is for01:23
andy5995You mean this?
andy5995I don't have write access to that either.01:24
EvilhamYou can fork that project from the web ui01:31
EvilhamHaven't triedbut I guess wiki things would work01:32
andy5995Yes I've already forked the repo, but it only contains the README. Most of the existing package docs are on the wiki. Which I can clone, but I can't fork.01:32
EvilhamOtoh, probably those wiki things should be disappearing.... I dont think many people check update or knowthey exist01:33
EvilhamI see, so they are even more useless than I thought01:33
EvilhamOh well :-)01:33
andy5995That's why I suggested copy the source of the wiki pages into the repo itself.01:34
EvilhamMakes sense01:34
andy5995But then again, people would have to deal with email notifications from the merge requests and review discussions01:35
EvilhamIf nobodyfigures it outbefore I remember this in about 14 hours, Ill see if I can give you edit permissions to that project and itll be easier for you01:35
andy5995which I do'nt mind.. I just delete emails with duplicate subjects before my inbox fills up01:35
andy5995or I just click the "merge requests" link on the repo to see what's been updated01:36
Evilhamthat's still better than a limited use wiki, I do t recall if gitea even supports those01:36
andy5995Evilham: I tend to agree...01:36
Evilham(Thereis a pending move to gitea)01:36
* golinux goes back to painting the deck - second coat01:37
andy5995Basically I think one of the reasons the pack-docs haven't been maintained.. anyone who could, doesn't have the time, and anyone who's willing (be it to fix typos or add whole paragraphs) doesn't have access.01:39
andy5995even people who are brand-spanking new to projects are sometimes willing to do a quick PR to fix a typo or grammatical errors.01:39
EvilhamYup :)01:40
EvilhamAnyway, imma take a look in some hours01:41
Evilhamandy5995: if you want, you can look into gitlab wiki migration tools, there must be sth out there already01:42
EvilhamAka sth that uses gitlabs API to generate a tree of dirs files01:42
EvilhamAnd if not and you are so inclined, you could try implementing it, skme other poor soul could bendfit afterwards01:43
EvilhamThereis good documentation of the API and a decent Python module01:44
EvilhamIf you do take a look, letme know what you find or dont find01:44
Evilham\o nighty01:45
Xenguygolinux: paint it black ; -)01:54
andy5995Evilham: gitlab wiki migration tools? Hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure it's needed for this case. I've cloned the repo and there are only 3 files, which I expected.03:00
andy5995I think the only problem will be updating the links to match the new locations in the repo, but probably just a search and replace will be easy enough for only 3 docs03:01
andy5995golinux: I got your last message on the gitlab broken links issue... These are the 3 markdown files from the wiki that could get moved into the repo.03:02
andy5995Evilham golinux and if you'd like, I could do a merge request to add them, and update the links.03:03
rrqandy5995: I agree that everything is less of a hurdle with that (all) documentation as first-class git project(s). Possibly augmented with an automated "publishing bot" for rendering into publication(s). But/And best to go wih golinux and Evilham ...03:24
golinuxSounds like a plan.03:25
rrqstart with promoting the existing pages into the rep; then should be named .md for markdown aor .adoc for asciidoc (which is slightly more "advanced")03:25
golinuxOs that a confirmed option?03:26
rrqyes, asciidoc works in "normal" files ... eg devuan-packages/udptap03:26
* golinux just got in from painting. 03:26
rrq(those fumes :))03:26
golinuxBut are they publishable if we ever want to put them on the website.03:27
golinuxNo kidding and near 100 too03:27
golinuxmiddleman can handle markdown03:28
rrqyes; asciidoc is just a markdown variant...
golinuxOK then03:28
golinuxWe're good to go.  That option should probably be mentioned in the notes somewhere.03:29
golinuxI need to clean up. bbiab03:30
rrq(that example also illustrates the "man page" support of asciidoc.. though someone should explain to the youngsters what a "man page" is ;))03:33
andy5995If I read things right, sounds like the next step will be done by someone else.05:08
andy5995Good idea to make things publishable05:08
andy5995going on a trip soon, think I'll shut down early tonight. Back in 2 or 3 days. Cheers :)05:09
LeePengolinux: fsmithred: The policykit update is available in beowulf. We had to do a full version bump from +devuan3 in ceres, but there are no other changes. We just have to remember than now we have a beowulf version > ceres version which is not great for workflow.13:13
fsmithredLeePen, were you able to get no-CSD without installing the gtk3-nocsd package?13:15
LeePenfsmithred: I don't think so, but it was a few weeks ago. I can try again now.13:17
fsmithredLeePen, I wasn't able to do it. It's not a necessary feature because the nocsd package exists and works. I just wanted to know for sure if the CSD stuff in p'kit works or not. (I might be doing it wrong.)13:42
enycFWIW,  Mxlinux  with their  systemd-shim   update to be sysvinit-by-default  have produced a Beta MX 19.1  ....16:51
enyc+1 to the general idea of needing to patch less packages in general16:52
LeePenfsmithred: I have just tried on an uptodate beowulf VM with the clearlooks-phenix-cinnabar-theme_7.0.1-3~test2_all.deb and gtk3-nooverlayscrollbar_7.0.1-3~test2_all.deb you sent me a few weeks ago.17:07
LeePenAFAICS, even *without* gtk3-nocsd the scrollbars are enabled in synaptic (which I think was what you were after?)17:09
* Evilham reports on wikis on gdo17:14
EvilhamApparently GitLab deals with wikis as their own git repository, but this is not included in forks and so on.
Evilhamso, it'd be kinda easy to migrate wikis to a special branch on the "main" repository for a project17:16
Evilhamand a way to keep those up-to-date would be that upon merging changes, these changes are also pushed to the wiki git repo17:18
Evilhamalso: that's not exclusive to GL, gitea and GitHub do the same17:21
golinuxGood news.  Thanks for your sleuthing.  :)17:28
onefangHmmm, lots of failures in the weekly mirror report.  B-(17:37
Evilhamand there are only 23 projects with wiki pages17:37
Evilhamonefang: maybe pkgmaster just updated and things haven't propagated yet17:37
EvilhamI don't trust that email too much :-D17:38
onefangI'll run my mirror checker later.17:38
Evilhammine says everything was fine 2h ago17:38
Evilhamgolinux: I recall dev1fanboy's wikis having some special role, what was it? there is devuan-resources and Upgrade-Install-Devuan17:39
Evilhamalso, can we archive this? I don't see anyone wanting to take upon themselves this right now and if that time comes, it can be revisited
EvilhamAlso, Centurion_Dan: can this be gone?
Evilhamand rrq: maybe this wiki can also be gone (though not the whole repo)?
sasquatch"I recall dev1fanboy's wikis having some special role" <<< is playing dead a special role?18:00
sasquatcha stale wiki is worse propaganda than having no wiki18:02
onefangI have a page on FoD.18:03
sasquatchme too18:03
sasquatch== yeti18:04
sasquatchthe critical mass for a 2living" wiki simply is not reached18:04
sasquatchand that for already a too long time18:04
sasquatchsome formerly enthusiastic writers already left18:05
sasquatchIt's dead, Jim!18:07
golinuxdev1fanboy's wiki pages are on the website here and the visual guides here
golinuxThose guides are also included on the install disks.18:08
golinuxI have not seen him around (chillfan on irc) since early June iirc even though I have tried to contact him by email several times18:09
golinuxEvilham: ^^^18:10
golinuxIt has been years since a issue of Devuan news was published.  It was a LOT of work so burnout.  There is still #devuan-news but folks who visit there usually want news not to write it18:12
golinuxThe FoD wiki is independently maintained by FlibberTGibbet.  Last year we were set to move to an "official Devuan wiki" on mediawiki.  We're good at flapping gums.18:17
sasquatchI'm out.18:19
golinuxmsi, who was doing the documentation on the wiki, left in a bit of a snit and now hangs our with Adelie18:20
Evilhamalrighty, so dev1fanboy's repos can be gone basically18:22
golinuxplasma41, fsmithred and I should be able to update dev1fanboy's documentation for beowulf18:22
golinuxSo no!18:22
Evilhamok :-d18:22
Evilhamit's just the info is duplicated18:22
Evilhamand I am guessing... translations won't happen for the updated info18:22
Evilhamso, those changes could happen directly on devuan-www18:23
sasquatchI think a stale wiki is bad publicity18:23
Evilhamsasquatch: yup, which is why I'm going through all the wikis on gdo and proposing we get rid of 'em all basically. As for FoD, it was never an official devuan thing IIRC18:23
golinuxI was thinking of adding pages on the wiki18:24
Evilhamon FoD?18:24
onefangI want to merge some of my FoD page into the mirror walkthrough, but keep the rest.18:24
fsmithredupgrade instructions should be easy to fix. Migration instructions not so easy. Someone who's done a successful migration will need to help.18:24
golinuxno dev1fanboy18:24
golinuxfsmithred: I volunteered you without asking first.  Sorry.  :D18:25
sasquatchwhy have the pages on git and dokuwki?18:25
golinuxYou are my go-to resource for such things.18:25
fsmithredsed -i 's/ascii/beowulf/g' is about all we need to do.18:25
fsmithredI would not be opposed to removing the migration howto.18:26
fsmithredor someone convince me that it's relatively easy to do.18:26
golinuxFor beowulf, right?18:27
Evilhamalrighty, so, how about this: the 'official' documentation wikis: devuan-doc/manuals and devuan/devuan-{documentation,project,maintainers} get merged into one repository (they mostly have no info), where also dev1fanboy's wiki gets imported with proper attribution18:27
fsmithredyeah, either stretch or buster to beowulf18:27
Evilhamhaving repositories / wikis for one page feels super useless18:27
fsmithredI tried a couple months ago, and it was a mess.18:27
golinuxWe need testers.  (That's not going to be me)18:28
fsmithredgetting all the docs in one place makes sense. I've never used a wiki page on gdo.18:28
golinuxhellekin set up gitlab and much like the website is is fragmented and overly compartmentalized.18:29
golinuxVery non-minimal.  I removed many redundant pages from the website.18:29
golinuxI have just opened a query to FlibberTGibbet.  Maybe I can catch him.  If not I'll email.18:32
golinuxEvilham: Please keep the Devuan-News history of published issues18:34
Evilhamyeah, I'm proposing we archive those18:34
Evilhamaka: they exist but marked as "nobody should be working on this or consider doing anything based on this unless they have talked things with someone else"18:34
golinuxSounds good.18:35
Evilhamemail sent18:42
Evilhamnow I'll be off \o have a good friday18:42
golinuxByeeeee . . .18:48

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