libera/#devuan-dev/ Thursday, 2018-11-22

Centurion_Dansaw the email you forwarded from Ian Jackson...00:27
Centurion_Danhmmm, I think he's creating hurdles that would make it impossible for Devuan to use any elogind package for Devuan impossible.00:28
Centurion_Danfrom Debian...00:29
gnu_srsCenturion_Dan: I really don't understand his view of things, he was earlier a very sysvinit positive person?00:36
gnu_srsAnd Marc Haber was too, as I remember. Now he is arguing for the other side??00:37
Centurion_DanI think he's shit scared that the systemd fanbois in Debian will chase him off and say he should use Devuan if he wants sysvinit with a desktop... and to be honest I think they'd be right in a sense...00:39
Centurion_DanOf course don't tell him that I said that...00:39
Centurion_DanAlso he's probably realising that eudev in Debian will be hard work...00:40
Centurion_Danprobably better off asking him straight out if elogind in Debian is unrealistic and better to just keep it in Devuan instead?00:42
golinuxSo much for init freedom in Debian . . .01:54
Centurion_DanWell, we already knew that init freedom and systemd are incompatible...02:56
XenguyThe one ring to rule them all!03:16
golinuxCenturion_Dan: Yes, WE knew, now more and more people are realizing the consequences . . .03:21
LeePenI know it is taking a long time to get elogind into debian which10:30
LeePenis frustrating. I still think and hope it is possible. The situation for10:30
LeePendebian is a little different as they want it alongisde libsystemd.10:31
LeePenIf we can get it into debian, I think it will make things easier for Devuan, which is what we all really want ;)10:31
Centurion_DanLeePen: for elogind there is little tangible benefit for Devuan in getting it into Debian.  We will not begin to use Debians package of elogind instead of building direct from upstream.  If Debian want to build our package then they're welcome to do so...11:21
Centurion_Danif they want to patch it for their use that's Debians business.  I think it will get little love in Debian and we'll constantly end up doing all the work and then have to wait around for debian to accept our patches.11:23
Centurion_Danbetter we are upstream for Debian with this package then the other way around.11:24
LeePenCenturion_Dan: I agree. Although I meant it will be better for Devuan in the sense that it11:26
LeePenwill help keep other things that Devuan wants viable in Debian.11:26
Centurion_DanWe may gain some credit for helping get a working elogind package in Debian, but that will only be with the select few that use it.  The rest won't give a damn, and as you've already found they will most likely block it...11:26
Centurion_DanI suspect that without all the rest of the work we have done to provide a stable out of the box sysvinit/open-rc init-freedom distrobution, they will fail  to make headway.11:28
LeePenI had a bit of a look at the libsystemd/elogind symlink idea11:28
LeePenOn binaries linked against libsystemd at build time, you seem to get requirements11:30
LeePenfor some of the sd_journal* functions which are not in libelogind.11:30
LeePenI am not sure if that will be a show stopper or not?11:31
Centurion_Danthey're not serviced in devuan anyway as we don't have journald so that's no loss and I think those interfaces only apply to tools wanting to access logs via journald api's so that will be the journald tools...11:34
LeePenYes. I am just going to fire up an unstable VM and give it a go.11:35
Centurion_Danmost likely that will be irrelevant even in debian for sysvinit with rsyslog11:35
Centurion_Danif you make the suggested patches and build for experimental I'll test it here too11:36
Centurion_Danit's safe in experimental as you need to force install from there.11:37
Centurion_Danand if it's really bad, then I can always manually remove them from experimental too.11:38
LeePenAlways have a backing out plan!11:38
Centurion_DanIf this does work this will be a real kick in the nuts for Poetterings plans for world domination... and his own ABI's will be used against him ;-)11:39
gnu_srsHi, I'm also about to take a closer look at the elogind/polkit issues in a VM. Do I star with a netinst.iso from debian sid or devuan ceres?11:48
gnu_srsLeePen: Where do I find your source packages of elogind/policykit-1?11:49
LeePengnu_srs: The ones I have been working on for Debian are at
gnu_srsAnd elogind?11:55
gnu_srsI'll build and install them with a local repo using reprepro.11:56
LeePen239.1+20181115-1 is in Devuan unstable already. git.d.o/devuan-packages/elogind12:00
LeePenI can push the debian specific branch if you want it, but it is nearly the same.12:00
Centurion_Dangnu_srs: there is a devuan ceres mini.iso.12:11
Centurion_Danthe install breaks if you tasksel Devuan Desktop Environment, so disable that and just select xfce.12:12
gnu_srsCenturion_Dan: Maybe it would be advisable to investigate Debian and Devuan images in parallel.12:14
Centurion_Danor (i386):12:14
gnu_srsMore work (less fun?)12:14
Centurion_DanI'm not particularly concerned about debian, they are big enough to look after themselves, and they appear to have already lost the gloss of the idea of elogind in Debian...12:16
LeePengnu_srs: I can't install policykit-1 from Devuan experimental.  libpolkit-gobject-1-0 version 0.105-18+devuan2.3 seems to be missing from the Packages index.12:22
gnu_srsIt should be available in ASCII though. About experimental: Centurion_Dan ^^12:25
LeePenYes, but I am working on unstable and I wanted to try the polkit elogind backend stuff ;)12:27
Centurion_DanI have an unstable package ready to go.12:28
Centurion_Danjust need to push and build12:29
LeePenOK, thanks. I will wait12:29
Centurion_Dandid you push something to suites/unstable already?12:32
Centurion_DanLeePen: ^?12:32
LeePenOf elogind?12:32
Centurion_Danok that's fine then.12:32
LeePenI was just trying to install gnu_srs's 0.105-18+devuan2.3 version from experimental12:33
Centurion_Dangnu_srs: have you been working on policykit-1?12:35
gnu_srsCenturion_Dan: No lately, no.12:38
Centurion_Danok.  didn't want to tread on your work if you had.. ;-)12:39
gnu_srsCenturion_Dan: The version I have on my ASCII laptop is: 0.105-18+devuan2.1112:43
Centurion_Danlooks like it's building ok 0.105-21+devuan212:43
gnu_srsNot 0.105-21...12:44
gnu_srsI dunno who made those changes, KatolaZ?12:44
Centurion_Danme :-)12:47
gnu_srsOK, which changes did you make?12:47
Centurion_Dannot much, merged it, refreshed patches and fixed a little issue with source compression (dpkg changed the default compression level)12:49
gnu_srsI see now that no -elogind or -consolekit backends are built with that version: Binary: policykit-1, policykit-1-doc, libpolkit-gobject-1-0, libpolkit-gobject-1-dev, libpolkit-agent-1-0, libpolkit-agent-1-dev, libpolkit-backend-1-0, libpolkit-backend-1-dev, gir1.2-polkit-1.012:49
gnu_srsThe ASCII version had many more packages, and a lot of transitional ones too...12:51
Centurion_Danoh... bugger... so unstable wasn't up with ascii...12:56
Centurion_Danhmm let me try and rebase13:11
LeePenCenturion_Dan: I think you are going like this13:16
LeePenCenturion_Dan: actually not so sure. Wait a bit more..13:18
KatolaZI haven't touched policykit13:38
KatolaZand have no intention of doing that :)13:38
KatolaZthere are more experienced hands around13:39
LeePenCenturion_Dan: I have Devuan unstable with elogind,  policykit-1 0.105-21 without the elogind backends but with  libsystemd0 a symlink to libelogind0 and polkitd is managing to match pids to sessions.13:39
plasma41Happy Thanksgiving everyone!15:33
plasma41I'm thankful for Devuan and everyone who has contributed to it.15:34
gnu_srsLeePen: Nice. Any ideas on how to incorporate the consolekit2 backend needed for xfce and mate?15:37

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