| houkime | done reworking the display connector area. Almost all ESD protection was overhauled and components that need to be in that area are placed in their approximate locations. Seems like now everything fits. | 03:26 |
|---|---|---|
| houkime | pushed to https://notabug.org/Houkime/Neo900/ for now. You can pick it up and merge with houkime/layout branch later if the server is back up. | 03:26 |
| houkime | also named and renamed a bunch of nearby nets so that differential routing has a chance to work correctly and also one can see more clearly what is gong on. | 03:28 |
| houkime | Also made a footprint and employed in display connector area ESDA5-1F4 which Joerg-Neo900 recommended a year ago as a MOXVAR replacement. | 03:30 |
| houkime | The rest of MOXVARs will probably be replaced tomorrow. tired. | 03:31 |
| clapont | hi everyone! | 09:17 |
| houkime | clapont, hi | 10:26 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | >>which Joerg-Neo900 recommended a year ago as a MOXVAR replacement<< wow, I was good a year ago | 12:04 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | MOXVARs age. Sucks when they start leaking | 12:05 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | basically each surge they eat welds the MOX together a tad more | 12:06 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | tranzorbs recover completely | 12:07 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | atk: could you have a look at our git? | 12:10 |
| atk | Joerg-Neo900: the timing might be a bit difficult as I'm in china for another 2 weeks but what would you like me to look at? | 13:56 |
| atk | oh, it's down | 13:57 |
| atk | I just realised I don't have access to my usual keys | 13:57 |
| atk | as I didn't anticipate this and only have a temporary burner laptop with me | 13:57 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, for replacement of a Metal-oxide varistor on BOB i am looking at nexperia's PTVS7V5Z1USKYL (8.3V breakdown voltage 13V clamp) | 14:42 |
| houkime | that varistor there was used for protection of flash torch, and this torch needs 6.8 volts (two diodes 3-3.4v each in series) | 14:44 |
| houkime | I checked, it is just a silicon one, however it might be a bit costly. (0.44$ at digikey) | 14:45 |
| houkime | Also there is a Vishay one VCUT07B1-HD1 | 15:00 |
| houkime | 7v breakdown, 12v clamp and 0.37$ | 15:01 |
| houkime | Strange, they have different data in datasheet and on digikey. need to recheck | 15:03 |
| houkime | * 7.3V breakdown, 7.0V standoff and from 12 to 15V clamping voltage depending on current (from 1A-4A) | 15:06 |
| houkime | For now i will place Vishay there on Bob. | 16:04 |
| houkime | all 5v-rated MOXVAR's are getting replaced by ESDA5-1F4 | 16:05 |
| houkime | Especially under SIM cards their extremely small size is critical. | 16:06 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | houkime: entirely up to you now | 16:29 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | atk: no problem, take your time, look at it when back at home | 16:29 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | houkime: costly doesn't matter at all since, as sad as it is, nobody will ever build a bulk of those boards | 16:31 |
| houkime | replaced MOXVAR on BOB with Vishay diode | 17:41 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | ((nobody will ever build a bulk of those boards)) un less we find a sponsor that doesn't care about throwing 'unlimited' money at it | 18:36 |
| houkime | All remaining MOXVAR's were replaced. No more MOXVARs. Issue #4 closed. | 18:47 |
| houkime | * this was actually #2)) But #4 (ESD under SIMs) is closely related | 18:49 |
| houkime | Probably it is no longer an issue also. | 18:49 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, is there a document which shows which LED (from those that are supposed to shine through spacer) goes in which corner? | 20:59 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, as i understood, there are 6 keyboard LEDs which are probably meant to go under keys and uniformly illuminate stuff. | 21:28 |
| houkime | +1 MOD LED + 2 AUX LEDs + PRIVACY LED (on BOB) + 2 flash LEDs + scrutiny LEDs (a row on LOWER) | 21:29 |
| houkime | + a display indicator integrated LED | 21:30 |
| houkime | To the corners of the spacer are probably supposed to go MOD and 2 AUX LEDs | 21:31 |
| houkime | So unless someone tells me otherwise i will place 2 AUX in 2 northern corners, and MOD will go right in the center under spacebar, but on the lower surface of the UPPER. | 21:34 |
| houkime | according to stackup, spacer goes a bit lower then UPPER and if one places a LED on the lower side it will still be seen. | 21:35 |
| houkime | however, now that i am rechecking this, this spacer hangover leaves only 0.5 mm for LED to shine through so it probably will be dim (although still probably seen) | 21:39 |
| houkime | At the same time mixing it with keyboard LEDs is probably not good, so it can go either to the side or to the north. | 21:40 |
| houkime | Side is better since it is more clearly visible when the phone is folded out. | 21:41 |
| houkime | you don't need to turn the phone that much. | 21:42 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | >>which LED (from those that are supposed to shine through spacer) goes in which corner?<< irrelevant, make some plausible assignment. Prolly starting left lower and then counter clock wise is "natural" | 21:50 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | >>6 keyboard LEDs which are probably meant to go under keys and uniformly illuminate stuff.<< they have to go into exactly same positions as in N900 | 21:50 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | I think we had tjhat in proto-v1 already | 21:50 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | they are NOT _under_ the keys, they shine into domeshesaat lightspreader from side, thuse those are sideways-LEDs | 21:51 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | 3 LEDs go to left side of KBD next to qualifier keys | 21:52 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | they are straight up shining LEDs | 21:53 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | >>if one places a LED on the lower side it will still be seen<< ack | 21:54 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | we have: privacy LED (RGB) next to main cam between the two flash LEDs, 3 MODifier LEDs left to the 3 MODifier keys left side of KBD. 5 kbd RGB LEDs shining into lightspreader "from above", and IIRC TWO AUX LEDs (RGB) meant to illuminate spacerframe left and right lower corner | 21:57 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | s/5 kbd/6 kbd/ | 21:58 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | isn't that *all* written down in notes in schwmatics? | 22:02 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | schematics even | 22:02 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, no it isn't. Or maybe it is on other branch. Need to check | 22:03 |
| houkime | There are notes on which LED is which but not about where they are supposed to go. | 22:04 |
| houkime | With a possible exception of Privacy LED | 22:05 |
| houkime | which i already placed in my previous round a year ago while fighting with BOB)) | 22:07 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | Kbd is backlight 6 RGB LEDs. AUX 2 Spacerfarme, Privacy RGB between flashlight LEDs, 3 monochrome MOD left to MODifier keys | 22:08 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | sheet "LEDs" in schem | 22:09 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | jr@saturn:~/Dokumente/Neo900/projbin/neo900-proj/ee/hw> eeshow -N 20 neo900.pro | 22:11 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | sheet21 | 22:13 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, thx for explanations, i will now place LEDs and also make more notes on the sheet 21. | 22:14 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | notes on schematics please only with kicad4! | 22:15 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | any modification of schematics with kicad5 breaks it | 22:15 |
| houkime | Don't worry. I am making all modifications only on my branch now. My branch has been running kicad5 for more than a year now. | 22:17 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | or you port eeshow to kicad5 gormat ;-) | 22:17 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | format, even | 22:18 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | and did you ever try opening kicad5 schematics with eeshow? | 22:19 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, i actually kind of did port eeshow it a while back. Though i don't remember if _all_ functionality remained. | 22:19 |
| houkime | need to revisit it, doesn't really use eeshow much nowadays. | 22:19 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | a pity, it's the gem of the Neo900 "IDE" | 22:20 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | kicad planned to integrate it into release5 | 22:20 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | I wish wpwrak would take a more active mainainer role on it | 22:21 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | maybe *I* should resurrect some of my skills of last millenium and maintain eeshow? | 22:22 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | though, eventually I was fed up with coding business | 22:23 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, strategically i would rather think about inclusing this functionality into librepcb and other newer generation foss EDAs | 22:23 |
| houkime | *including | 22:23 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | how do those compete to kicad nowadays? | 22:24 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | anything on par now? | 22:24 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, i occasionally see on mastodon people publishing their work made with librepcb. | 22:25 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | kicad was a pile of crap until CERN gave it a major overhaul | 22:25 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, nothing complex seen though and last time i checked it myself about a half a year ago. | 22:26 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | whatever mastodon, is there any 8layer work done with libre? | 22:26 |
| houkime | haven't seen 8-layers yet. | 22:26 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | kicad at least has proven to be up to the task, several times now | 22:27 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | maybe we should move this discussion to #kicad ? | 22:27 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, as i understand the core problem with kicad is it's internal mess and large complexity which makes integrating new things quite tricky. I hope CERN can do sth with it but realistically it will take a long time. | 22:30 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | no, in this regard kicad is end-of-life | 22:31 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | wixwidgets | 22:31 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | intrinsically mixed in | 22:31 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | too much core function code in wixcode | 22:32 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | way too few and bizarre OO | 22:32 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | it's NOT like everythinbg in KiCad is a kicadobject->refinedobject->etc | 22:33 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | the methods for iterating over one class of objects won't workk for any other class aiui | 22:34 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | EDA is the text book example for pure OO developmentr | 22:34 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | alas KiCad is NOT | 22:34 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | you know what a kicad program should look like? there's main() { new kicadobj kicad; kicad.init(argc, *argv) } | 22:37 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | that's the whole main program | 22:37 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | SHOULD | 22:37 |
| houkime | i got the point. Unfortunately i haven't compared sources of new EDAs with kicad yet. | 22:40 |
| houkime | For now i would like to get v2 done since the end feels rather close now. I don't need a change of tooling or eeshow for that. | 22:42 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, ok, i found keyboard LED positions on the bareboard N900 pictures. Them i will carefully copy. | 23:17 |
| houkime | Joerg-Neo900, MOD LEDs however seem to be a neo900 thing not present in original design | 23:18 |
| houkime | you said they need to be placed to the left of the mod keys which means that either they are supposed to be under keys or there is some case modification needed (orifices) | 23:19 |
| houkime | however now that i recheck stackup i see that spacer actually will cover the borders of the keyboard | 23:20 |
| houkime | so if leds are placed there and whine up they will be seen through spacer. | 23:21 |
| houkime | *shine up | 23:21 |
| houkime | the only possible problem with this is the fact that although on original N900 there seems to be a thick border around the keyboard, the motherboard itself is not that wide. | 23:23 |
| houkime | I have also noticed that on current neo900 PCB the keyboard is a bit screwed up and modkeys are on the wrong side compared to both N900 photos and schematics. will need to fix that. | 23:25 |
| houkime | though it also seems that if MOD LEDs are translated a little bit to the north from the mod keys themselves this might work. (there is a cutout near SHIFT that prevents placing a LED against it) | 23:28 |
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