libera/#maemo/ Monday, 2019-04-08

Vajbmy friend baked his xbox 360 in regular oven and got it working again.05:35
Vajbhmm maybe I should bake my "self-booting" N900...05:36
buZzi've seen ppl repair a bricked PS3 with a paintstripper and alufoil07:06
sixwheeledbeastNot good for you oven if you plan to use it for food again. Also the "paintstripper" technique is sometimes only a very temporary fix on the PS308:54
bbxtrhello,I am having problems accessing talk.maemo.org with VPN on11:04
sixwheeledbeast~unbanip11:04
infobotrumour has it, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal, or if your ip is dynamic, try changing it, or tags: RBL, tmo IP blocked, spam11:05
bbxtrthank You11:05
KotCzarnyfun fact, devuan ascii is too old to build firefox-56.0.213:17
inzBlame SystemD! — oh wait13:24
KotCzarnynah, it's just that debian is old as it is13:28
KotCzarny;)13:28
KotCzarnysame would happen on scratch13:28
KotCzarnys/scratch/stretch/13:28
infobotKotCzarny meant: same would happen on stretch13:28
inzSomehow that thinko made my head sing "etch(y) and stretch(y) show" with itchy and scratchy show tune13:30
KotCzarny:)13:30
KotCzarnybuster is coming, some day13:30
inzNow matter how hard adam and jamie tried to kill him13:31
bencoh"etchy and stretchy" <313:37
pabs3I noticed the website is giving a 403 error, anyone else getting the same?14:15
KotCzarnywhich website?14:15
pabs3maemo.org14:16
KotCzarnysoa#114:16
KotCzarnyie. works for me14:16
KotCzarnyim not logged in though14:17
bencohworks here, even when logged in14:19
pabs3hmm14:20
pabs3talk.maemo.org works but maemo.org prompts me to login14:21
KotCzarnytry without https14:21
pabs3huh, interesting14:23
sixwheeledbeastIt's one reason people use other distros more so in a desktop environment. I suppose there is a ESR available?14:37
KotCzarnyswb: context?14:38
brolin_empeyApparently the logo of LG AirDrive is very similar to the logo of MasterCard.14:40
sixwheeledbeastCommon complains are most packages are very old unless you are on sid.14:41
sixwheeledbeastESR for firefox BTW14:41
brolin_empeysunshavi: Apparently there are no Wikipedia meetups in South America, at least not on en.wikipedia.org .  It only goes as far south as Mexico.14:41
KotCzarnynah, firefox esr has moved already far past 56.0.2 which i want14:41
KotCzarnycompiled it without a problem on slackware14:42
KotCzarnybut devuan is just too old14:42
KotCzarnyat least devuan-ascii14:42
sixwheeledbeastoh. not helpful14:42
KotCzarnyi wouldnt be using such old release, but 2 reasons.. 1/ alsa, 2/ lots of missing useful extensions on 57+14:43
sixwheeledbeastI suppose having less updates provides a more stable platform is the idea which is better for upstream distros.14:44
sixwheeledbeastOh pre Quantum14:44
KotCzarnythey shot themselves in the foot with it in my opinion14:44
sixwheeledbeastI forgot that 57 was Quantum14:44
KotCzarnymost people wouldnt even notice, because they just click the internet14:44
KotCzarnybut anyone using firefox for customizability..14:44
KotCzarnyextensions in 57+ just suck14:45
sixwheeledbeastI have got used to it TBH. Seems to have reduced customisability a little but improved performance/stability greatly.14:45
KotCzarnynah, i see otherwise, it's more memory hungry14:46
KotCzarnywhich leads to big slowdowns at times14:46
sixwheeledbeastIt seems to use little memory in the main process but other processes are a little heavier.14:47
KotCzarnyand they've enabled multiprocess in background14:47
KotCzarnywhich results in bigger memory footprint14:47
KotCzarnyi still remember pre 4.x firefox when they had a rule that installer has to fit under xxx megabytes14:48
sixwheeledbeastMy only complaint is a can't find anything in preferences anymore14:49
KotCzarnythat too, although once you set prefs, you dont have to do again14:49
sixwheeledbeastyep14:53
MaxdamantusI pretty much hate the idea of extensions anyway.15:06
KotCzarnynah, they are good if done right15:06
MaxdamantusIt's a fucking horrible system.15:06
KotCzarnyits fucking horrible system when one-size-fits-all15:06
MaxdamantusIt's just like encouraging people to run a bunch of random software on their computer.15:06
KotCzarnyso, why are you modding your n900?15:07
MaxdamantusI was using basically two extensions on Chromium at work. It turned out one of them was sending all of my history to some Israeli company.15:07
KotCzarnybad extension you got burned by != all bad15:07
MaxdamantusIt was a fairly legitimate looking extension. It's still very popular and is highly rated on the store.15:08
Maxdamantushttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe//Aqui15:08
Maxdamantusover 4 stars15:08
Maxdamantus1.7m users15:08
Maxdamantusbut it sends all of your browsing history to the owner.15:08
MaxdamantusThere's an unfucked version too, so I've just been using that instead, but it's not like the original version is removed from the store or anything.15:09
MaxdamantusI don't want to imagine what stupid shit people are running when they're using 20 random extensions or whatever that look cool15:10
KotCzarnywell, applestore/google store isnt any better in that regard15:10
KotCzarnynot even starting with windoze15:10
KotCzarny:)15:10
bencohtbh I've been staying on old firefox because of vimperrator15:11
MaxdamantusI'm pretty sure that's *FAR FAR* better, since by running applications installed through those stores, you're not giving them access to things like all of your browser usage, or access to any other application running on your system.15:11
KotCzarnyfirefox basically switched to chromium15:12
MaxdamantusSince applications installed on iOS/Android are properly sandboxed.15:12
Maxdamantusextensions are not sandboxed from all web content15:12
Maxdamantusbut they really should be. You shouldn't be running random code that has access to everything in your web browser.15:12
MaxdamantusThis basically applies to all software people run on typical desktop OSes too.15:14
KotCzarnyyup15:14
KotCzarnynow show me how many users create standard account in windozes15:15
Maxdamantusthe only place that seems to actually address this afaik is in phone OSes, particularly iOS and Android.15:15
Maxdamantuson Linux there's supposedly Flatpak, but I haven't looked too much into that.15:16
MaxdamantusI think the macOS store might also work similarly.15:16
Maxdamantusanyway, bed. don't use extensions.15:16
sixwheeledbeastPart of quantum is that permissions are asked for before you use the plugin and any updates that require permissions changes too.15:18
Maxdamantusregarding that Stylish extensions, it's even really unclear whether or not it does it just by Googling for information on it.15:18
KotCzarnyones i use: classic theme restorer, compact menu 2, download manager tweak, google search link fix, google translator for firefox, image zoom, noscript, nuke anything, open in browser, tineye reverse image search, toggleDocumentColors, user agent overrider, view cookies, web developer15:18
Maxdamantussixwheeledbeast: so how does an extension like Stylish work while the user gets to choose what it does?15:19
KotCzarnyand honestly, i think only 1 or 2 got rewrite for 57+15:19
Maxdamantus(also, just to be clear: I'm pretty sure Stylish still works that way; every time you load a page, it makes a request to something like `https://userstyles.org/blah/whatever?url=https:%2f%2fgoogle.com%2f`15:20
sixwheeledbeastCTR is not available but you just have to tweak or find other extentsion to do similar. Many extentsion are now complete rewrite so are not the same name or have new devs.15:20
Maxdamantus)15:20
KotCzarnyswb, yeah, but the fact people have to start from 0, means they are often limited, incomplete and/or buggy15:20
Maxdamantusalso, when I looked into it, it was made by a company that intentionally collects data that way, so it's not coincidental15:21
KotCzarnyi wasnt even able to find sensible 'dark page colors' type extension15:21
sixwheeledbeastthe issue is the API is less flexible from what i can gather not all things are possible. but equally something that where done in extentsion before where hacky and not good for performance.15:21
KotCzarnysure, and im using firefox with all those extensions on thinkpad x40..15:22
Maxdamantushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimilarWeb15:22
Maxdamantus> SimilarWeb is a website which provides web analytics services for businesses. The company offers its customers information on their clients' and competitors' website traffic volumes; referral sources, including keyword analysis; and website "stickiness" (e.g., time on site, page views, bounce rate), among other features.15:22
Maxdamantusmakes a totally useful browser extension that just happens to have the minor side effect of sending visited URLs back to its owner .. hmm, wonder why15:23
sixwheeledbeastI mean if you want to continue with FF I suppose you will have to switch to quantum at some point.15:23
KotCzarnyswb, only if it gets functionality i need. otherwise i probably start looking for alternatives15:24
sixwheeledbeastAll google product do similar15:24
sixwheeledbeasti am not sure which addons you are struggling to find replacements for.15:25
KotCzarnyand there is really little choice, either mainline 2-3 engines, or some incomplete-specs-that-dont-render-web2x15:25
KotCzarnyswb: all of the mentioned ones15:25
KotCzarnyit's a list that evolved with me for many years15:26
KotCzarnyi miss toggleDocumentColors the most though, if i had to rate15:27
sixwheeledbeastAs i say CTR isn't going to happen you can just modify the userchrome file and use other plugins.15:27
KotCzarnythe ones that are for quantum are quirky and not doing their job well15:27
sixwheeledbeastnoscript is available but i switched to privacybadger/umatrix15:27
KotCzarnybtw. situation is similar to extras-devel15:29
sixwheeledbeastuser agent switching is possible i have that15:29
KotCzarnyeither you get useful software that's sometimes unsafe, or stick to old extras that's rarely updated15:30
sixwheeledbeasti also had a list that has evolved from 3.x but I found replacements for 60% and oither solutions or drop the latter 40%15:31
brolin_empeyI cannot use Firefox for my use case with a Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad CPU, SATA SSD, and 8 or 16 GiB of main memory, never mind on a ThinkPad X40.16:02
brolin_empeyVivaldi still works well on my Core 2 computers, though.16:05
sixwheeledbeastquantum runs ok on my 2 core laptop and spinning disk drive.16:05
brolin_empeysixwheeledbeast: With between 40 and 50 documents open at once?16:06
sixwheeledbeastwell no, you are not far off maximum resources with an email client and word processor open too.16:07
brolin_empeysixwheeledbeast: Now you know why I use Vivaldi instead of Firefox?16:09
sixwheeledbeast50 documents is not a normal use case for your average desktop16:10
brolin_empeyMany of these “documents” are actually applications with a Web front end, not normal documents.16:13
brolin_empeyIncidentally: Trying to use an Android application to send an image via fax seems to be easier said than done.  Scanbot claims to have this ability but this function seems to be broken.16:18
brolin_empeyAlso, who cares what is “normal” or average?16:20
brolin_empeyAlso, so far me not having superuser access to the Android OS installation on my LG G5 seems to not matter in practice.16:22
sixwheeledbeastIt is not about caring more about not expecting old tech to preform as good with new ideals. I can't believe anyone 15 years aog would have enough memory to open 50 documents full stop. nor expect to have to work on 50 documents at one time.18:02
sicelo< brolin_empey> "I cannot use Firefox for my use case ... never mind on a ThinkPad X40" - that's exactly where I'm using it. system has 1GB RAM.18:26
brolin_empeysicelo: Not relevant unless you have at least 40 documents open at once in Firefox.18:28
siceloone thing i can't find is a way to make the default zoom be 80% instead of 100. i seem to recall it was there in older versions of FF18:46
* sicelo goes on to a search engine18:47
KotCzarnyyou change the pixel size18:48
sixwheeledbeastjust change default size ?18:48
KotCzarnynope18:48
sixwheeledbeasttext size18:48
KotCzarnychange the pixel size18:48
KotCzarnyx40 has low resolution of 1024x76818:49
KotCzarnyit has to be done at pixel render level18:49
KotCzarnyforgot exact name but it has pixel/dot/size in it18:49
KotCzarny0.85 is fine for most pages in my case18:49
siceloyes i think 0.85 would be good for me too. this one, perhaps? layout.css.devPixelsPerPx ?18:50
siceloalthough it seems that will also affect FF's icons, etc.18:50
KotCzarnyyup18:51
KotCzarnyand affecting ui is a good thing too18:51
KotCzarnysince it adds more screen estate18:51
sixwheeledbeastCtrl - shortcut isn't too hard to do each time if that's all you need?18:56
KotCzarnynah, too repetitive18:56
KotCzarnyand with such small screen you would be resizing most pages18:57
siceloyeah. Ctrl+- ends up being tedious. layout.css.devPixelsPerPx seems to be working good18:59
sicelolater in the year (hopefully) i can afford something with better cpu, ram, and screen, e.g. T460 :-/19:00
KotCzarnylook for dell e644019:01
KotCzarnythose are really nice19:01
sicelolet me check.19:01
KotCzarnygrab one with intel card and i5-4300M cpu, those are kinda sweet spots19:03
KotCzarny4310M is little bit better but also more rare19:04
KotCzarnyweak point is display19:04
KotCzarnybut watchable still19:04
KotCzarnyand quite bright19:04
sicelofor the used prices i'm seeing (in South Africa), seems a thinkpad with 5th-7th gen core i5 is still better option19:06
sicelobut will keep checking. thanks for suggesting it19:06
KotCzarnyi bought mine for ~200usd19:07
KotCzarnywith 16gb of ram19:08
siceloi'll check more sites around here. i'm not too choosy when it comes to screens19:09
KotCzarnyand thinkpads usually come with U cpu19:09
KotCzarnywhich is nice for temps, but lower perf19:10
KotCzarnyie 1,7ghz vs 2.7ghz19:10
sicelobuying stuff on a shoestring budget can be hard :) ... all the options to weigh, etc.19:14
KotCzarnyyeah19:15
KotCzarnymy weight landed on that e6440 being cheap, yet powerfull enough19:15
sicelohow's the trackpoint experience on it?19:15
KotCzarnytoo touchy19:19
bencohcan't you set sensitivity?19:21
KotCzarny\yeah, but didnt bother yet19:22
KotCzarnyusing it with mouse most of the time19:22
KotCzarnyas it's my tf2 machine19:22
KotCzarny:>19:22
bencohteam forteress?19:22
bencoh-e19:23
KotCzarnyyup19:23
brolin_empeysicelo: KotCzarny: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07DPT2WK3/ref=sspa_dk_detail_7?psc=1 This fanless notebook computer looks very nice for the price but it is missing a Scroll Lock key and integrated Ethernet connectivity.20:22
siceloi've never really had a chance to see how capable (or incapable) those processors are ..20:30
KotCzarny1.1ghz pentium? seriously20:32
KotCzarnyalthough probably better than atom anyway20:33
KotCzarnyfor 400usd you can have quite capable machine20:33
KotCzarnyor chromebook, if you insist on low power20:33
buZzbrolin_empey: i got a amazing lowpower fanless supermicro motherboard20:53
buZzhttps://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/atom/A2SDi-8C-HLN4F.cfm20:53
buZz8 core atom , ~25W total draw with 2x dimms, 1x 2.5" 3TB and 1x 500GB NVMe20:54
KotCzarnybuzz: what freq on cores?20:55
KotCzarnyand what's the price20:55
buZzhttps://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/97926/intel-atom-processor-c3758-16m-cache-up-to-2-20-ghz.html20:56
buZzKotCzarny: -expensive-20:56
KotCzarnyheh20:56
buZzhttps://www.twp.nl/index.php?task=2&pid=MBD-A2SDI-8C-HLN4F-O&name=Supermicro-MBD-A2SDI-8C-HLN4F-O-mainboard20:57
buZz420 ex tax20:57
buZz:)20:57
KotCzarnynot that nice then20:57
KotCzarny;)20:57
buZzits nice in that its ~xeon performance for ~atom powerdraw21:00
brolin_empey420 EUR?21:00
buZz420 for motherboard + cpu yeah21:00
brolin_empeyIs there a lower cost CPU that works with this motherboard?21:00
brolin_empeyYikes, XE says that 420 EUR is currently approximately 629 CAD.21:03
buZzbrolin_empey: the cpu is soldered on21:03
buZzthey do make 2core versions of the board though21:03
buZzhttps://www.twp.nl/index.php?task=2&pid=MBD-A2SDI-2C-HLN4F-O&name=Supermicro-MBD-A2SDI-2C-HLN4F-O-mainboard21:03
buZz200 eu ex21:03
buZz16core version is 700 eu ex21:04
buZz:)21:04

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