| Oksana | After installing python2.7, pyversions -i (or -s) still gives only python2.5 | 05:19 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would pyversions know which versions are installed? | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that it couldn't tell, but prolly knowing how it works helps spotting the "problem" | 06:38 |
| brolin_empey | It occurs to me that fax and SMS and maybe even Telex can be considered a form of electronic mail. | 08:22 |
| KotCzarny | messaging. mail is also a form of messaging | 08:22 |
| brolin_empey | Yes. | 08:23 |
| brolin_empey | Has the “People’s Republic of China” truly had USA DARPA Internetwork connectivity only since 1994, like Wikipedia says? | 08:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Presumably you could always have just used dial-up. | 08:30 |
| Maxdamantus | (using a service provider in a different country, if none existed within China) | 08:31 |
| brolin_empey | The .tw WHOIS server says that some .tw domain names, at least asus.com.tw , have existed since the 1980s, which suggests that the Republic of China had USA DARPA Internetwork connectivity before both the World Wide Web existed (project was proposed in 1989) and before the PRC had USA DARPA Internetwork connectivity. | 08:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Wikipedia says: > China has been on the internet intermittently since May 1989 and on a permanent basis since 20 April 1994. | 08:32 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't think that's particularly late tbh | 08:33 |
| KotCzarny | taiwan != china (especially in 90s) | 08:33 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, but he's talking about China, not Taiwain | 08:34 |
| Maxdamantus | Taiwan = Republic of China | 08:34 |
| Maxdamantus | China = People's Republic of China | 08:34 |
| KotCzarny | but it was special case | 08:34 |
| Maxdamantus | unless he misspoke. | 08:34 |
| KotCzarny | they had some independence | 08:34 |
| KotCzarny | that's why in 90s taiwan != china | 08:34 |
| Maxdamantus | Apparently internet was only in this country (New Zealand) in 1989 too. | 08:36 |
| Maxdamantus | at a particular university, not available in general. | 08:36 |
| Maxdamantus | but in any case, we still had phonelines, so people could have dialed up themselves to offshore ISPs beforehand. | 08:37 |
| brolin_empey | Mainland China was the original Republic of China from 1912 to 1949, when mainland China became the People’s Republic of China and Taiwan became the current Republic of China. | 08:39 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but it still had some independence till some event in 90s/early 2000 | 08:40 |
| Maxdamantus | when you say "The Republic of China", do you mean by name, or by some other sort of identity of the people in control? | 08:40 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm not particularly familiar with the history, but statements like that seem kind of vague. Presumably it should involve something more than which government used which name. | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | However, references to the province is now rare since the Taiwan Provincial Government has largely been dissolved and its functions transferred to the central government or county governments since 1997 | 08:43 |
| KotCzarny | so, as i've said, till '97 it was a province of china, but rules were more lax then | 08:44 |
| buZz | ha, just got someone excited for maemo/n900 | 08:49 |
| buZz | (said person was planning to get a android phone to do -development- on it) | 08:50 |
| brolin_empey | Maxdamantus: By name. The original Republic of China, governed by the Kuomintang and led by Chiang Kai-shek, lost the Chinese Civil War to the Communist Party of China, led by Mao Tse-tung, who established the People’s Republic of China in mainland China in 1949, which is why 1949‑10‑01 is National Day in the PRC. The Kuomintang fled to Taiwan and established Taiwan as the current Republic of China. The PRC has never controlled Taiwan. The ROC | 08:55 |
| brolin_empey | continued to represent “China” in the United Nations until 1971, when the ROC lost its seat to the PRC. Since then, Taiwan/ROC is the both the largest country by population and the largest economy outside of the UN. | 08:55 |
| brolin_empey | The One China Policy is the party line of the PRC. | 09:02 |
| brolin_empey | buZz: The Nokia N900 can somewhat run Android as the host OS and some computers that ship with Android can also somewhat run GNU+Linux as the host OS. Even the Nexus One from 2010 can run Debian GNU+Linux as the host OS but without cellular telephony capability when I last checked years ago. | 09:26 |
| buZz | brolin_empey: thats a huge benefit | 09:26 |
| buZz | nonworking cellular a) makes battery lasts longer b) increases privacy of the device | 09:27 |
| buZz | and c) prevents harrassment while working on something | 09:27 |
| KotCzarny | just buy a tablet? | 09:27 |
| buZz | KotCzarny: no clue what you're saying | 09:27 |
| KotCzarny | android without cellular | 09:27 |
| buZz | which maemo tablet are you talking about? | 09:27 |
| buZz | i dno why we're discussing android? | 09:27 |
| buZz | nobody wants android at all | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | it has its uses | 09:28 |
| buZz | beside alarmclock , i havent found any use for android | 09:29 |
| buZz | but sure, if you wanna lower standards to it, you can | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | tv boxes | 09:29 |
| buZz | kodi runs on linux just fine | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | as long you have cpu power or hw accelerated decoding | 09:30 |
| buZz | sure, like a raspi1 | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | i like oranges | 09:31 |
| brolin_empey | buZz: I did not say without cellular connectivity, I said without cellular telephony capability. It may have working cellular data connectivity. | 09:34 |
| buZz | brolin_empey: thats horrible :P | 09:34 |
| ceene | is there anyway to look at serial console output, messages from the kernel, etc, from an ssh connection? | 12:26 |
| KotCzarny | cat /proc/kmsg ? | 12:27 |
| KotCzarny | (about kernel messages) | 12:27 |
| ceene | that may be good enough | 12:28 |
| ceene | thanks! | 12:28 |
| ceene | i have a remote thing that is oopsing | 12:28 |
| ceene | 2.6.34 kernel, modern as it comes | 12:28 |
| KotCzarny | maybe ttylog too | 12:29 |
| KotCzarny | ie. ttylog tty | 12:29 |
| ceene | i'd rather not have to install anything else | 12:30 |
| ceene | embedded systems are a pain in the ass | 12:30 |
| KotCzarny | maybe it's already installed | 12:30 |
| KotCzarny | or available in busybox | 12:30 |
| ceene | nope | 12:31 |
| KotCzarny | also: t=`tty`; setconsole $t | 12:31 |
| KotCzarny | http://old.easyco.com/easydocs/linux/man/man8/setconsole.htm | 12:32 |
| ceene | i don't have setconsole even on my pc | 12:32 |
| KotCzarny | might be what you need | 12:32 |
| ceene | /proc/kmsg may be enough | 12:33 |
| ceene | now i need to be able to trigger this oops on command | 12:33 |
| ceene | because up to now seems completely random | 12:33 |
| KotCzarny | in slackware: ./a/kbd-1.15.3-i586-4.txz: /usr/bin/setconsolefont | 12:33 |
| KotCzarny | erm. wrong | 12:33 |
| KotCzarny | scratch the last comment ;) | 12:33 |
| ceene | lol | 12:33 |
| KotCzarny | you are right, it might be either very old command or rh specific | 12:34 |
| KotCzarny | cat /dev/console might be also a trick | 12:35 |
| KotCzarny | easiest to trigger kernel output is swapon/swapoff | 12:36 |
| ceene | there's no swap on this thing :) | 12:36 |
| KotCzarny | 8MB swapfile ? | 12:37 |
| ceene | na | 12:37 |
| ceene | i'll wait and see what happens with /proc/kmsg | 12:37 |
| ceene | i have a remote person too, who can provide me logs when required | 12:37 |
| ceene | but i didn't want to bother him | 12:37 |
| ceene | so i'm bothering you :D | 12:37 |
| KotCzarny | not bothering at all | 12:38 |
| ceene | this oops is also ancient | 12:38 |
| KotCzarny | writing some script so i can multitask | 12:38 |
| ceene | nowadays oopses are more verbose | 12:38 |
| ceene | i don't understand a thing | 12:38 |
| KotCzarny | depends on kernel options | 12:38 |
| KotCzarny | usually i only understand which module it occured | 12:38 |
| ceene | it's telling me that it occured on one task that is a program i wrote | 12:39 |
| ceene | but at the moment of the oops, this program is only doing mathematical calculations | 12:39 |
| KotCzarny | oh, right, dividing by 0 in c program might also trigger oops | 12:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:39 |
| ceene | and shm read/write access | 12:39 |
| ceene | well, dividing by 0 segfaults, not oops | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, right | 12:40 |
| ceene | doesn't segfault either, does it? | 12:40 |
| ceene | simply crashes the process | 12:40 |
| ceene | but not the kernel | 12:40 |
| ceene | it also complains Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | unless it's a kernel module | 12:40 |
| ceene | so i'm not sure if the problem is inside an interrupt service routine | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | might be simply corrupting memory | 12:40 |
| ceene | or if it's just a consequence of the oops | 12:40 |
| ceene | Unable to handle kernel paging request for data at address 0x00000000 | 12:41 |
| ceene | Faulting instruction address: 0x400155b0 | 12:41 |
| ceene | Oops: Kernel access of bad area, sig: 11 [#1] | 12:41 |
| ceene | there's some null dereferencing | 12:41 |
| ceene | that's clear | 12:41 |
| KotCzarny | YUP | 12:41 |
| KotCzarny | segv in kernel code results in oops | 12:41 |
| ceene | but where is it? I mean, I think I know which kernel module would be at fault, because this platform uses a driver written by the company that provides us the hardware | 12:41 |
| ceene | so i guess it's their fault | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | quality vendor code | 12:42 |
| ceene | but where in the hell that is that piece of code lies the problem? that's a mistery | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | binary too? | 12:42 |
| ceene | no, at least i have the source | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | recompile with lots of printk | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | or use kgdb | 12:42 |
| ceene | 76513 total | 12:43 |
| ceene | that's quite a few lines to read | 12:43 |
| KotCzarny | for a start add printk("%s\n",__func); in ever function start | 12:44 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 12:44 |
| KotCzarny | s/__func/__func__ | 12:44 |
| ceene | first i'm trying to make the oops repeatable | 12:44 |
| ceene | if I had to guess, i'd say it should be due to the dma functions | 12:46 |
| ceene | because that's the only thing that is happening: lots of dma transfers to userspace | 12:46 |
| ceene | but, who knows what else is it doing on the background | 12:46 |
| KotCzarny | just add printk i've mentioned to every function with some sed | 12:47 |
| ceene | but that's not going to serve much if i don't know how to make it crash | 12:47 |
| ceene | it may happen today, or maybe tomorrow | 12:47 |
| ceene | i need to make it happen fast enough | 12:47 |
| KotCzarny | check logs around time it happened | 12:47 |
| KotCzarny | maybe there will be some clue | 12:48 |
| ceene | nope, nothing | 12:48 |
| ceene | reading the Call Trace and looking at System.map, I may know where's the origin | 13:00 |
| ceene | it may be some access to a strange serial device | 13:00 |
| ceene | so i'm forcing lots of read/writes through that device, to see if something happens | 13:00 |
| ceene | gonna have lunch meanwhile, let's see if it breaks then | 13:01 |
| ceene | nothing happened | 14:25 |
| ceene | grrr | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | brolin_empey: AFAIK Taiwan was totally unrelated and almost at war with mainland China until maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Now they have somewhat better standing with each other but still are two totally separate states | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who represented China in UN is another highly intriguing topic | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Taiwan basically is under protectorate of USA | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there were times when there were MEGA speakers on the common costline, to bridge the several seamiles with mere sound and annoy the opponent | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 15:31 |
| Wizzup | this was true for korea until a few weeks ago | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they have a common land vorder though | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | border | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wp taiwan | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki taiwan | 15:32 |
| infobot | At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{other uses}} {{redirect|Republic of China|the People's Republic of China|China|other uses|Republic of China (disambiguation)}} {{pp-move-indef|small=yes}} {{pp|small=yes}} {{short description|State in East Asia}} {{EngvarO|date=December 2016}} {{Use dmy dates|date=August 2017}} {{Infobox country | conventional_long_name = Republic of China | common_name = Taiwan | native_name = ... | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "recently" a president or governor or whatever been elected in Taiwan who followed a strong policy of "one China" in some way, and that led to quite some turmoil | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to call mainland and Taiwan one country is almost like back when you would have called GDR and Western Germany one country | 15:43 |
| bencoh | ceene: don't you get a stack trace when your kernel segv? | 16:06 |
| ceene | bencoh: yes, I was missing the fact that this kernel is compiled without CONFIG_KALLSYMS | 16:08 |
| ceene | so the backtrace was pretty useless | 16:08 |
| ceene | but I found the matching System.map file | 16:08 |
| ceene | so now I know which driver is responsible, this seem to be triggered by the IRQ service routing of a strange serial driver | 16:09 |
| ceene | but I haven't been able to replicate it at will | 16:09 |
| ceene | i'm stresssing that serial port as a bitch, with no oops | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:101.portrait.altonthompson.jpg www.linkedin.com/in/joerg-reisenweber ;-) | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh what? linkedin doesn't show my profile to non-"members"? | 16:16 |
| bencoh | depends on the profile | 16:18 |
| bencoh | basically that's configurable iirc | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: so can you visit http://www.linkedin.com/in/joerg-reisenweber ? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaaand are you a linkedin victim? | 16:43 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: it asks me to join | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I ranted about | 16:45 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: and I do have a linkedin profile | 16:45 |
| bencoh | yeah :) | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah so maybe only for members | 16:46 |
| bencoh | you can set it to be public as well if you want (or so I recall) | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I did | 16:46 |
| bencoh | hmm, strange then | 16:46 |
| bencoh | wait, maybe they changed their policy | 16:47 |
| bencoh | even supposedly public, google-indexed profiles still redirect to that page | 16:49 |
| bencoh | (say, torvalds, for instance) | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and proxy on startpage gets 403 | 17:06 |
| bencoh | proxy? | 17:10 |
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