libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-08-15

TwistedFatefsmithred: yes00:07
TwistedFatei only have 1 desktop tho00:07
fsmithredlol00:10
onefangfred``: I have that problem to.  Fail2ban fails to ban.  It worked fine before I installed ASCII.00:34
drizzthum, did fail2ban move to the new nft syntaxe/interface ?00:38
drizztdebain maintainers for iptables replaced iptable by nft without renaming the package00:38
drizztif you still use iptables (iptables-legacy), then maybe failtoban fails to work ?00:39
onefangShorewall still works fine, so I've been manually stuffing the worst IPs into that.00:39
onefangBoth fail2ban and shorewall depend on iptables.00:41
onefangThere's no iptables-legacy, there is iptables-nftables-compat.00:42
onefangAnd there is a nftables package as well.00:43
aslani assume that devuan is still at ascii version. how mature is ascii? when will beowulf is available?01:57
gnarfaceyou assume correctly01:58
gnarfaceascii is very mature01:58
gnarfacebeowulf timeline is unknown01:58
gnarface(people are already using beowulf successfully but there are known issues)01:59
aslansorry, i just got out of the hospital last week and still adjusting to being home.03:14
* furrywolf has an aslan jaguar, and wonders if the nick is any relation...03:15
aslanfurrywolf: think c.s.lewis03:17
furrywolfI never read much fiction...03:18
aslangnarface: beowulf out by end of year?03:18
furrywolf(I've never read any of c.s. lewis's works)03:19
aslanfurrywolf: c.s.lewis, the lion, the witch and the wardrobe. Narnia Series03:19
aslanfurrywolf: watch the movie.03:19
aslangnarface: how have you been?03:20
furrywolfI don't like movies.  lol03:20
aslangnarface: long long time no read03:20
furrywolfin any case, oh well, nothing to do with my favorite toys.03:20
aslanlaying in a hospital movies and audiobooks are all I had to keep me sane.03:21
gnarfaceaslan: i haven't heard anything official.  last i heard they were still casually polling for an inventory of broken packages03:21
gnarfaceaslan: i don't think the end of the year is impossible, but i don't think the process is that easy to predict because volunteer time fluctuates so wildly03:22
aslanah. okay. I have been out of circulation since last December03:22
gnarfaceseveral people have reported beowulf works fine for them03:22
gnarfacei think there are some known breakages with permissions backends and gui login prompt stuff still (the usual suspects)03:23
aslangnarface: is there an installer for beowulf?03:23
gnarfaceaslan: last i heard no, aside from an unofficial build of the mini.iso03:24
gnarfaceaslan: people are mostly just doing a clean ascii netinstall and then upgrading from that03:24
aslangnarface: how would I go about to install beowulf on  a test disk?03:25
aslangnarface: ah, i see you answered it.03:25
gnarfacewell you could use debootstrap instead03:25
gnarfacethat is also an option03:25
aslangnarface: is there a new installer for ascii?03:26
gnarfaceyea that has been available03:26
gnarfaceaslan: all under here: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/03:28
gnarfaceARM stuff in the embedded subdirectory03:28
gnarfaceregular installers in the installer-iso directory03:28
aslani lost two hard drives the day after i was released from the hispotail. ComEd "blinked" the power twice at 23:00 hours. the hard drives were spin down when power was restored and they started to spin up then it "blinked" again. the hard drives just gave up03:28
gnarfaceouch03:29
gnarfacepower is quite unprofessionally managed here too, so i just started putting everything i care about on battery backup03:29
gnarfaceover a long enough time frame i learned it actually saves money03:30
aslancrashed all my machines. the macs and raspberry pi recovered fine. the intel/amd boxes not so well03:30
aslani need to get 6 deep discharge marine batteries for the inverter.03:31
gnarfaceso, this keeps coming up, but someone once told me that there is nothing different about marine batteries except the housing.03:32
furrywolfheh, I have 40 golf cart batteries.  batteries suck.  :)03:32
aslanI would like to get a few of the 24volt or 48volt telephone company batteries.03:32
gnarfacei.e., marine batteries just cost extra because they can survive being on a boat at sea for longer, which is a very harsh environment with high temperature fluctuations.  theoretically just regular generic car lead-acid batteries should work just as well for deep cycling as long as you keep them out of the sun03:33
furrywolfgnarface:  a starting battery has lots of thin plates.  they provide lots of current, but wear out quickly if cycled.  a marine battery has a medium number of medium thickness plates.  they provide moderate current and can be cycled a few times.  deep cycle batteries have big thick plates, which makes it so they can't put out much current, but you can cycle them a bunch before the plates crack, dump off all the lead paste, etc.03:33
aslana friend has those but they are large and heavy. not easy for a person in a wheelchair to deal with.03:33
furrywolfno.  a car battery gets about a dozen deep cycles before you have scrap lead.  heh.03:34
gnarfacethat's just something someone told me who claims to have tested themselves in their garage, i haven't tested this theory myself.  i'd make sure to have some sort of plastic acid-proof mat or bucket in case of ruptures03:34
furrywolfmarine batteries still aren't good for repetitive cycling, but they'll handle it better than a car starting battery.  for repetitive cycling, you should get a proper deep cycle.03:34
gnarfacefurrywolf: that's interesting information.  the person who told me they were the same though did claim to have cracked several open to check03:35
furrywolfand he's wrong about the one difference he says...  the cases are exactly the same.  lol03:35
furrywolfsame polypropylene cases as everything else03:35
gnarfacehah03:35
gnarfacenoted03:35
gnarfacei'll have to see if i can get him to give me some specific brand names he tried this comparison with03:36
furrywolfit's possible that some brands are putting shitty starting batteries in cases with marine stickers stuck to them...  would not surprise me one bit.  but a proper marine battery is halfway between a starting battery and a deepcycle battery.03:38
aslaneries03:38
aslanfurrywolf: you need some tesla batteries03:38
furrywolfmarine batteries are combination starting/cycling batteries...  and not really good at either one.  all proper setups use starting batteries for the engine and deep cycle batteries for the house loads.03:38
aslans03:40
furrywolfonly place I use marine batteries is my subaru, because it needs to both start the engine, and be able to run my inverter and such without damage.  otherwise I use seperate starting/house banks for everything.03:40
furrywolfnot much room to put a row of L16s in the subaru.  :)03:40
aslanwell i have to go, it is morphine time.03:41
aslanbye for now03:41
furrywolfcyas03:41
nemofurrywolf: huh. interesting. I assumed marine batteries were mostly about corrosion resistance and avoiding shorts due to salt air16:04
furrywolfno.  other than including studs as well as sae posts, their construction is identical.16:48
furrywolf(external construction)16:48
nemofurrywolf: since you know something about batteries clearly16:52
nemosomeone I know bought a cabin, out in middle of nowhere so he put in solar panels16:52
nemofurrywolf: he was hoping to improve the usefulness of them with something like musk's "solar wall" but I guess home made16:52
nemofurrywolf: trick is, he's not there very often, the cabin is in middle of canadian wilderness so temperatures in winter would be often far below freezing16:53
nemofurrywolf: was wondering what the tricks were for ensuring batteries continue to charge in a situation like that.  large temperature swings, often below 0°C16:53
nemoI'm guessing you can't just insulate without risking overheating in discharging16:54
djphnemo: what battery chemistry?17:32
furrywolfinsulation combined with a vent fan17:33
furrywolfmake sure you have enough solar to keep them fully charged; discharged batteries freeze at a much higher temperature than charged batteries.17:34
furrywolfmany charge controllers have an option to switch on a vent fan during charging to vent hydrogen.  heating during discharging is pretty much a non-issue.  if discharging is making your batteries hot, you have a severely undersized battery bank.17:35
Evilham:-D can this move tpmo the OT channel?17:35
Evilham#debianfork IIRC17:35
EvilhamItll make it easier for those who catch up with the channel history17:36
AlexLikeRockgood morning19:53
AlexLikeRocki have duplicate signals at KDE-Network manager19:55
retak_dont!20:44
drawkula?20:56

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