| Digit | saw this image, and thought of the fuss here about 04-01 https://diasp.eu/uploads/images/scaled_full_b3394d7be4b2e15e6ede.jpg | 01:26 |
|---|---|---|
| tuxd3v | Well, it his partially true | 01:27 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 01:27 |
| tuxd3v | thanks for sharing | 01:27 |
| tuxd3v | ;) | 01:27 |
| tuxd3v | But we should look around and check what options exist and what fullfills the better one for our Society | 01:27 |
| tuxd3v | Choice is Freedom | 01:27 |
| Digit | well... i'd prefer it if we could choose what choices we get to make. being offered a choice of a punch in the face or a kick to the groin is a poor choice, and if not allowed to run away, then there's little sign of freedom. ... colourful analogy aside, i advocate direct democracy, e-democracy, "config democracy" n so on, rather than this multi-year gapped pseudo-elective dictatorship/kleptocracy/oligarchy stuff we have. | 02:07 |
| gnarface | in #debian they'd usually respond to such statements simply with "patches welcomed" | 02:09 |
| gnarface | however i have a different view on it | 02:09 |
| gnarface | at least where it comes to software | 02:09 |
| gnarface | not everyone is qualified to vote | 02:09 |
| gnarface | and a lot of the people who want a say the most are the ones with the most harmful ideas | 02:09 |
| gnarface | i used to think the Linux toolbox sucked | 02:10 |
| gnarface | then after about 2-3 years of working with it i realized that i wasn't even remotely qualified to second-guess the people who had made the previous generation of the stuff | 02:10 |
| Digit | sounds like coroboration of one of my more controversial voting-system ideas... aptitude tests and weighted votes based on results. | 02:10 |
| gnarface | i think feedback from all corners should be welcomed, but yea i don't think the outcome should be that the project just blindly follows the most popular lowest-common-denominator of desires | 02:11 |
| Digit | yep | 02:11 |
| gnarface | some value needs to be given to solutions that have proven themselves with longevity | 02:11 |
| gnarface | replacing stuff just because it is old is something that unqualified children like to do | 02:12 |
| gnarface | and i know this because i remember being one of those punks | 02:12 |
| Digit | the magpie effect, yeah, very dangerous. "ooh shiny!" | 02:12 |
| gnarface | and if i can grow out of it, so can everyone else | 02:12 |
| gnarface | i think the best way to go forward is to find solutions that disrupt the existing ecosystem as little as possible | 02:13 |
| gnarface | i had this epiphany the other day that the biggest problem people have with sysv-rc seems to just be that they hate typing out symlinks by hand | 02:14 |
| gnarface | this is something that could be solved with a gui tool for them very easily, or even added as an extension to update-rc.d | 02:14 |
| gnarface | but then, that wouldn't drive market hype the way redhat's slash-and-burn approach does :-p | 02:14 |
| tuxd3v | I think you are right | 02:15 |
| gnarface | but a big problem does seem to come from companies that are more willing to spend millions reinventing the entire stack than they are to spend $300 making one guy read the fucking manual | 02:15 |
| gnarface | so you have stuff like these expensive commercial backup systems written by teams of people who couldn't figure out how to use tar right | 02:16 |
| gnarface | it's a shame | 02:17 |
| gnarface | (seriously, go read the netvault product blurb) | 02:17 |
| gnarface | (they basically admit they couldn't figure out how to use tar) | 02:17 |
| DonkeyHotei | tar? you mean rsync | 02:18 |
| gnarface | they'd never even *heard* of rsync | 02:18 |
| tuxd3v | all in all, the first impetus to a trash SysVinit was that is uses symlinks, and "know one knows what it does"..they say.. | 02:18 |
| tuxd3v | when they haven't studied the subject | 02:18 |
| Digit | pedagogy inherent in the system. fully integrated, upfront, unavoidable manual/training/education embedded in use... is a dream i had in 2003, imagining it would "just happen" in free software. still a good idea methinks. | 02:18 |
| gnarface | i think it's just a basic disciplinary fault of management. but as i've said before, my father used to beat me. | 02:19 |
| tuxd3v | Now they have zillions of symlinks, but ina worst way, and tons of a reinvented syntax | 02:19 |
| tuxd3v | for a compiled system, that it tends to overcome the kernel itself | 02:19 |
| Digit | while it makes little sense to be guided by the lowest common denominator, it makes ample sense to accomodate/mitigate for them. | 02:20 |
| Digit | cant just wish em away. | 02:20 |
| gnarface | that's true, but i feel systemd isn't accommodating them so much as preying on them. | 02:21 |
| gnarface | it doesn't do what they want either | 02:21 |
| Digit | indeed. | 02:21 |
| gnarface | it just is marketed as such, and they're not qualified to distinguish | 02:21 |
| gnarface | that should be illegal, but unfortunately is not | 02:21 |
| Digit | exacerbates the harms. | 02:21 |
| * gnarface should stop clogging the channel with soapboxing | 02:22 | |
| gnarface | but i do think that a couple patches to update-rc.d could obviate the whole symlink management complaint | 02:22 |
| tuxd3v | yeah, its true, and some companies around follow, like sheeps | 02:23 |
| Digit | yeah, we're doing a bit of preaching to the choir methinks. good food for thought, but we're probably over-stuffed with such nourishment. | 02:23 |
| tuxd3v | Indeed, | 02:24 |
| tuxd3v | update-rc.d needs tunning | 02:24 |
| gnarface | it was just never finished | 02:24 |
| gnarface | but i don't think it was fundamentally flawed conceptually | 02:24 |
| tuxd3v | and maybe improovments at other levels | 02:24 |
| tuxd3v | improvements | 02:24 |
| tuxd3v | The symlinks are a good way of dealing with deamons and such | 02:25 |
| tuxd3v | we had the chkconfig in the past | 02:26 |
| gnarface | i had this idea for a opengl-rendered gui that draws all the links in a big tree structure and is capable of reconstructing them and the LSB-headers based on drag&drop user actions in a dependency-aware fashion. it would be complicated but not as complicated as replacing the entire thing with systemd | 02:26 |
| gnarface | and then it would actually solve the problem without removing flexibility OR replacing existing components OR being mandatory in and of itself | 02:26 |
| gnarface | and if you make it all colorful and flashy, the kids will like it too | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | its a possibility, for simplicity | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | does you remember chkconfig tool? | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | it worked ok | 02:27 |
| gnarface | i remember the name, but i feel like i only ever used it once | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | it created the symlinks automatically on the runlevels you wanted too and such | 02:28 |
| tuxd3v | everything worked | 02:28 |
| tuxd3v | The unique problem was in checking what deamon should start first | 02:28 |
| gnarface | i remember ntsysv, from early redhat | 02:28 |
| redrick | The RH version of chkconfig was actually a reinvention: SGI created the initial version for Irix. FYI. | 02:28 |
| tuxd3v | yes | 02:29 |
| tuxd3v | but the concept was not enterely bad | 02:29 |
| tuxd3v | it needed refinments | 02:29 |
| redrick | Right. Worked great. | 02:29 |
| tuxd3v | the only problems there were about who should start first | 02:30 |
| redrick | I remember grumbling about having to learn update-rc.d, too. ;-> | 02:31 |
| tuxd3v | for example by some reason if a deamon doesn start, should one that depends on it start? | 02:31 |
| tuxd3v | chkconfig was only a tool that behind worked on update-rc.d | 02:32 |
| tuxd3v | also creating links and so on, to activate or deactivate the deamon | 02:32 |
| redrick | You mean the Debian implementation of chkconfig was back-ended by update-rc.d? | 02:32 |
| tuxd3v | I believe so | 02:33 |
| tuxd3v | at some point it has to deal with it.. | 02:33 |
| redrick | I never looked into the Debian version, but instead just switched to the Debian-recommended too (and grumbled a bit). | 02:33 |
| redrick | tool, I mean. | 02:33 |
| redrick | I see from p.d.o that chkconfig seems to have fallen out of the archive. | 02:35 |
| tuxd3v | indeed | 02:35 |
| tuxd3v | it was a nice to have tool | 02:36 |
| tuxd3v | But it needed also some improovments | 02:36 |
| tuxd3v | like gnarface said above | 02:36 |
| tuxd3v | about updare-rc.d | 02:36 |
| tuxd3v | update-rc.d | 02:37 |
| tuxd3v | His Idea is a good option for Graphical environment.. | 02:37 |
| tuxd3v | But it could work out for text managment too | 02:38 |
| tuxd3v | imagine listing things in trees | 02:38 |
| redrick | It was in Jessie, but then dropped. But I'm pretty sure there was no dependency on /usr/sbin/update-rc.d . https://packages.debian.org/jessie/chkconfig | 02:38 |
| gnarface | yea ncurses would probably work, just not be as popular with the kids. i think that in theory you could make something similar for alsa configs too, knocking off most of the practical needs for pulseaudio, too | 02:39 |
| tuxd3v | some sort of a pstree but different | 02:39 |
| gnarface | alsa configs would be a lot harder though than the boot order | 02:39 |
| gnarface | i think | 02:39 |
| gnarface | but it could still be represented in a basic tree structure | 02:39 |
| tuxd3v | it doesn't even need to ne ncurses | 02:40 |
| redrick | Conceptual humour: 'No screenshot available. Sorry.' https://screenshots.debian.net/package/chkconfig | 02:40 |
| tuxd3v | it his a text base tool | 02:40 |
| redrick | Quite so. | 02:41 |
| redrick | #ThatsTheJoke | 02:41 |
| redrick | But they accept uploads. ;-> | 02:41 |
| tuxd3v | chkconfig --level 12345 deamon off | 02:42 |
| tuxd3v | chkconfig del deamon | 02:42 |
| tuxd3v | chkconfig --add deamon | 02:43 |
| tuxd3v | chkconfig --level 12345 deamon on | 02:43 |
| tuxd3v | simple things.. | 02:43 |
| tuxd3v | it creates behind the symlinks for deamosn and such | 02:44 |
| tuxd3v | the problem.. I don't know if it resolved dependencies, I think not.. | 02:44 |
| tuxd3v | that needed to be sorted out in the script of the deamon | 02:44 |
| tuxd3v | But anny way, in systemd you evben have a file that you put all that stuff there, plus | 02:45 |
| tuxd3v | later the creation of the deamon.. | 02:45 |
| tuxd3v | chconfig had a better aproach, and dependencies could be dealed inside each deamon | 02:46 |
| tuxd3v | I only start the engine, if I have a engine | 02:46 |
| tuxd3v | I think is needed to deal with update-rc.d behind | 02:47 |
| tuxd3v | but I agree that a improoved SysVinit is needed | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | evolutionary steps | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | not disruptive changes that ends to be faraonic and in the end, its 10 times more complicated, a mess.. | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | <gnarface>, What you are sugesting its something like lstopo | 03:07 |
| gnarface | oh, does something like it already exist? | 03:07 |
| tuxd3v | lstopo could be a good example of representing also, the processes in a machine | 03:07 |
| gnarface | i didn't know | 03:07 |
| tuxd3v | exists but for topology | 03:07 |
| tuxd3v | it has a cli frontend | 03:08 |
| tuxd3v | and a graphical one | 03:08 |
| tuxd3v | its very nice | 03:08 |
| tuxd3v | The 'hwloc' package provides it | 03:13 |
| tuxd3v | but its usually describes hardware | 03:13 |
| tuxd3v | its good for multicpu numa systems | 03:13 |
| tuxd3v | also | 03:13 |
| tuxd3v | for tunning | 03:13 |
| tuxd3v | path costs and so on.. | 03:14 |
| tuxd3v | even tough I never use it.. | 03:14 |
| tuxd3v | but is something that describes something it could deal with alsa | 03:14 |
| tuxd3v | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dvDX17GH0 | 03:18 |
| ih8wndz | hi | 08:53 |
| hightower3 | hi | 08:54 |
| ih8wndz | did a refractainstall, got system running in a kvm. trying to figure out networking. full disclosure, I am a funtoo (gentoo) user | 08:54 |
| ih8wndz | nvm, figured it out tnx | 09:05 |
| premoboss | hello, i have to list what is inside a directory1, but i have to see ONLY the files name, not the names of the directories inside directory1. I read all the man of ls but i dont find a flag as "--exclude-directories-name". i can do a for-next bash script to test if eac name refere to a directoriy or to a file, but i will prefere to use a single command "ls" with (if exists) the right paraleter. Some hit here? | 11:47 |
| debdog | from the top of my head, "ls ... | grep ^-" come to mind | 11:50 |
| KatolaZ | find ./ -type f | 11:50 |
| debdog | hehe, or that one | 11:50 |
| KatolaZ | find ./ -type f | sed -r "s:.*/([^/]+):\1:g" | 11:52 |
| premoboss | mm i try all. | 11:59 |
| Demosthenex | i'm going ot upgrade my box with samba and zfs to ascii today. any reservations? | 11:59 |
| premoboss | KatolaZ, that regex what do? | 12:00 |
| hightower3 | premoboss, something like find /directory1 -type f -maxdepth 1 ? | 12:00 |
| KatolaZ | premoboss: remove the directory from the path | 12:01 |
| premoboss | and the winner is: hightower3 :-) | 12:01 |
| KatolaZ | actually, you could use basename, but it's many more processes to be spawn | 12:01 |
| hightower3 | premoboss, (also for professional approach, if at all possible add option -print0 to find, and then treat the list as nullchar-separated rather than newline-separated. Most of the common cmdline tools have an option -0 or similar to indicate this) | 12:02 |
| debdog | oops, mine only works with ls -l, premoboss | 12:02 |
| * debdog is too used to his aliasas | 12:03 | |
| premoboss | debdog, with -l i get also many other parameter, instead i just need te list of the file name. anyway tahnks also to you to read my requewst and try to help. | 12:04 |
| debdog | yah, find prolly is the better option here | 12:05 |
| detha | or just ls -F | grep -v / | 12:38 |
| gnarface | ls -w 1 | 15:49 |
| gnarface | (single column list) | 15:49 |
| nemo | gnarface: what would I use that for? | 16:38 |
| gnarface | nemo: to pipe to another script, probably. i was responding late to something, don't worry about it. | 16:39 |
| nemo | ah | 16:39 |
| nemo | thought single column was default in piping anyway | 16:39 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure if that's always a safe bet | 16:41 |
| nemo | apparently piped ls is always equiv to ls -1 | 16:42 |
| nemo | " | 16:42 |
| nemo | POSIX requires -1 as the default whenever output is not going to a terminal:" | 16:42 |
| gnarface | i was having weird problems with the order being not what i expected | 16:46 |
| nemo | although for the cautious, -b is probably a good idea | 16:46 |
| gnarface | so i had some thought it was going across columns instead of down them | 16:46 |
| gnarface | in the newer versions, the addition of quoted file names with spaces being the default caused some messes for me too | 16:47 |
| gnarface | (though you can turn it off with -N, that breaks decades of expected behavior) | 16:47 |
| nemo | I'd learned long ago to never do for i in `/bin/ls *foo*` | 16:51 |
| nemo | but | while read f doesn't protect against anyone silly enough to put newlines in a file | 16:52 |
| nemo | or tricksy enough | 16:52 |
| nemo | it's usually not an issue ofc, but possible to make such a file by accident | 16:52 |
| nemo | *file name | 16:52 |
| nemo | gnarface: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs heh - he doesn't recommend the pipe either tho | 16:54 |
| nemo | but then the bash faq is very comprehensive | 16:54 |
| nemo | -print0 is annoying, but, eh, I guess if one wants to be (mostly) bulletproof... | 16:55 |
| ashleyk | i alwys do while read -r file; do echo $file; done < <(find...) | 16:56 |
| ashleyk | or whatever i want in the <() | 16:57 |
| ashleyk | aka while read -r line; | 16:58 |
| nemo | ashleyk: I guess that's fine so long as you *don | 17:03 |
| nemo | 't* want piping/subshells | 17:03 |
| ashleyk | you can do that | 17:03 |
| nemo | ashleyk: although the -print0 would still be needed if you wanted to be cautious | 17:03 |
| ashleyk | you can do piping and subshells inside the while loop? | 17:03 |
| nemo | and that syntax is naturally not portable, but number of times where that's mattered for me is close to 0 | 17:04 |
| nemo | ashleyk: I was just distinguishing between find | while and while… done < <(find) | 17:04 |
| ashleyk | hmm k | 17:04 |
| ashleyk | one loop to rule them all! | 17:05 |
| James1138 | ..."my precious" | 17:08 |
| nemo | ashleyk: either one is totally fine, so long as the resulting behaviour is what were looking for | 17:08 |
| nemo | ashleyk: it's true that the default subshell insulation is probably surprising to most people | 17:08 |
| nemo | ashleyk: although not contaminating the environment outside the loop can be good too | 17:09 |
| ashleyk | hmm yeah, i dont know a lot about it :p | 17:09 |
| nemo | dunno. depends I guess | 17:09 |
| ashleyk | whatever works is my motto | 17:09 |
| nemo | ashleyk: well... your syntax (besidesb eing shell specific) means that variables created inside the loop are in same scope as parent process so - that means screwing with env vars inside the loop would apply to your parent shell too | 17:10 |
| ashleyk | ah, right | 17:10 |
| nemo | ashleyk: while, find | while confuses people due to their loop counters or whatever not making it outside the loop if they didn't echo them ☺ | 17:10 |
| ashleyk | heres another 'whatever works' | 17:12 |
| nemo | ashleyk: | awk '{SUM+=$1}END{print SUM}' ← BTW, don't know much awk, but I use it for loop summation a lot ☺ | 17:13 |
| ashleyk | TSV format file reading: cat "$clientsFile" | while IFS=$'\t' read -r port client memo _ | 17:13 |
| nemo | ashleyk: yeah. that's probably the standard way to split a string into an array | 17:13 |
| ashleyk | yeah bash is great...i dont do portable stuff :p | 17:14 |
| nemo | $ grep IFS 2000_histoire/fetch.sh | head -n 1 IFS=: read -a COL <<< "$f" | 17:14 |
| ashleyk | @_@ | 17:14 |
| ashleyk | heh | 17:14 |
| nemo | I was grabbing some episodes of a super interesting history program that was not good at podcasts | 17:14 |
| ashleyk | about the french revolution? heh | 17:15 |
| nemo | so step one of my munger went to their website and grabbed the html and parsed it, then this was the fetcher that turned it into something useful | 17:15 |
| nemo | ashleyk: about all kinds of stuff really | 17:15 |
| nemo | https://blog-histoire.fr/ there's a nicer fan site now | 17:15 |
| nemo | but it did not exist 10 years ago | 17:15 |
| ashleyk | nice, bbl | 17:20 |
| premoboss | i have to parse the thr name of a file and extract the extention. it is easy to do cut -d "." -f2 if the filename is easy as music.mp3 or printme.ps, but how to do if a file is named crazy.name.for.a.file.avi? | 18:14 |
| premoboss | in other words, i have to capture all the characters after the last "." | 18:14 |
| premoboss | (if it exist) | 18:14 |
| KatolaZ | premoboss: man basename | 18:15 |
| premoboss | ok | 18:16 |
| KatolaZ | oh you want just the extension sorry | 18:16 |
| premoboss | yes | 18:17 |
| nemo | premoboss: you using bash? | 18:21 |
| premoboss | nemo, yes | 18:21 |
| gnarface | premoboss: heard of "file" ? | 18:21 |
| gnarface | (filename parsing to assume mime-type based on name doesn't solve for the issue of the file not having any extension) | 18:22 |
| nemo | FILE=crazy.name.for.a.file.avi | 18:22 |
| nemo | echo ${FILE##*.} | 18:22 |
| nemo | avi | 18:22 |
| KatolaZ | ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g' | 18:22 |
| nemo | https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/string-manipulation.html | 18:22 |
| KatolaZ | this doies part of the job | 18:22 |
| premoboss | ok | 18:22 |
| gnarface | file super_late_fun_time.avi | 18:22 |
| gnarface | super_late_fun_time.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 720 x 480, ~30 fps, video: FFMpeg MPEG-4, audio: Dolby AC3 (stereo, 48000 Hz) | 18:22 |
| KatolaZ | 'cause it also prints the filename of files without an extension | 18:23 |
| KatolaZ | sorry but I gotta go | 18:23 |
| premoboss | ok | 18:23 |
| premoboss | tnanks all | 18:23 |
| premoboss | thanks 2 all of yo | 18:23 |
| premoboss | thanks 2 all of you | 18:24 |
| gnarface | there's like a ton of ways to do this, but make sure you know for sure whether you actually want to know the file name suffix, or just the type of data it contains | 18:24 |
| gnarface | since there's no guarantee those will match | 18:24 |
| KatolaZ | but you can remove those with | 18:24 |
| KatolaZ | ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g;s/^[^\.]*//g;/^$/d' | 18:27 |
| premoboss | look, my goal is split filename to add a string inside: namefile.extension must became namefileMYSTRYNG.extention and if no extention exist, it must became namefileMYSTRUNG | 18:27 |
| nemo | premoboss: why not just use rename? | 18:28 |
| premoboss | nemo, because i didnt know it is possible to do with rename :-) | 18:28 |
| premoboss | if it is possible, now i read man rename | 18:28 |
| nemo | touch foo.bar foo | 18:29 |
| nemo | rename 's/\./EXTRA./' foo* | 18:29 |
| nemo | foo fooEXTRA.bar | 18:29 |
| nemo | premoboss: then you just need to do the $ case | 18:29 |
| nemo | you could do those in a single command but 2 might be safer | 18:29 |
| premoboss | nemo what if therea re a name like this.is.my.file.avi? i need it became this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi | 18:30 |
| premoboss | nemo, if I try your rename with 1.2.3.4.avi, it became 1EXTRA.2.3.4.avi, i neet it became 1.2.3.4EXTRA.avi. | 18:33 |
| premoboss | i dont know how much "." can be inside the name of file. | 18:33 |
| nemo | /tmp/test$ touch this.is.my.file.avi this_is_my_file_avi | 18:35 |
| nemo | $ rename 's/(.*)\./$1EXTRA./' * | 18:35 |
| nemo | $ rename 's/^([^.]*)$/$1EXTRA/' * | 18:35 |
| nemo | $ ls | 18:35 |
| nemo | this_is_my_file_aviEXTRA this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi | 18:35 |
| premoboss | nemo: no. i try to trell you better. the name of file can be whatever it is. can be or can be not an extention, can be one or more "dot" inside the name. i.e. file, file.txt, this-is_my.file.txt. then must became: fileEXTRA, fileEXTRA.txt, this-is_my.fileEXTRA.txt. | 18:38 |
| nemo | yes | 18:39 |
| nemo | and those patterns above would match both of those | 18:39 |
| nemo | all of those even | 18:39 |
| premoboss | ok, i will test immediately. | 18:39 |
| nemo | how is my result not what you wanted | 18:39 |
| premoboss | becayse i bad read yout text, sorry. | 18:39 |
| Demosthenex | ok, ascii upgrade went pretty smooth... but how can i repeat the prompts for merging config files? my ipmi console was crap and i had to skip them | 18:39 |
| gnarface | Demosthenex: just merge them manually | 18:43 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: i don't have a record for what was missed. i have least 3 that were at the prompt then ipmi disconnected and i had to blindly hit return | 18:44 |
| gnarface | Demosthenex: the unmerged ones should be in /etc right along side the regular config with .dpkg-old or .dpkg-dist extensions (depending on whether the version is the pre-merge or packaged version) | 18:44 |
| ashleyk | just got a intel nuc | 18:46 |
| gnarface | Demosthenex: (i like to use emacs for large config merges, but i'm sure there are other tools to help too) | 18:47 |
| James1138 | Question about Devuan. A few months back, I installed "reportlog" - hoping to help (however small) in my own way those working on future version of Devuan. Is there anyway to find out if the reports are reaching the right people... or do I need just purge "reportlog" and try something else? | 18:47 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: i was hoping there was a tool like dpkg-reconfigure to repeat them :P | 18:47 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: guess i can just find /etc | grep dist | 18:48 |
| gnarface | Demosthenex: i don't know that there's not, this is just always the way i've done it, because i like emacs better | 18:48 |
| gnarface | it has a file merge feature with color-coding | 18:48 |
| gnarface | guided | 18:48 |
| James1138 | I meant "reportbug" - sorry all! | 18:49 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: i'm already an aged emacser ;] | 18:49 |
| gnarface | James1138: they should go here, i think. not sure if they're expected to show up immediately though, and i recall at least in the past someone having to change the reportbug config to make it work... https://bugs.devuan.org/ | 18:49 |
| James1138 | Thank for the tip ganrface - I shall check out the link. | 18:52 |
| ashleyk | is there a way that actually works to convert the netinstall iso to a flash drive | 18:56 |
| gnarface | ashleyk: no need, it's special hybrid-iso | 18:57 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: what's your fav emacs diff mode? ;] | 18:58 |
| gnarface | Demosthenex: i've been using M-x ediff-merge-buffers | 18:59 |
| ashleyk | gonna try devuan for Nessus | 19:01 |
| ashleyk | their supported distro list is really bad | 19:01 |
| ashleyk | guess i bricked it already trying to disable secure boot | 19:15 |
| gnarface | is that possible? | 19:19 |
| gnarface | you can't even reset the bios settings? | 19:19 |
| gnarface | pull the cmos battery out and count to 10 or whatever? | 19:19 |
| ashleyk | yeah about to do the cmos jumper | 19:20 |
| ashleyk | because the other methods didnt work | 19:20 |
| ashleyk | but nooooooo they just had to shove uefi and secureboot down everyones throats | 19:35 |
| ashleyk | thanks intel and microsoft | 19:36 |
| ashleyk | when chip and os backdoors arent enough, go after the bios, then get your buddies to go after the OS, then takeover the kernel too, and do that! | 19:37 |
| ashleyk | but i got it installing | 19:38 |
| ashleyk | no ethernet detected though | 19:39 |
| ashleyk | guess its not open code because of the backdoors in the ethernet | 19:40 |
| Demosthenex | gnarface: thanks for the feedback | 19:47 |
| Demosthenex | that upgrade went pretty smoothly all things considered | 19:47 |
| gnarface | no problem, glad to hear it | 19:47 |
| ashleyk | well the installer is trying to find ethernet | 19:53 |
| ashleyk | and cant | 19:53 |
| ashleyk | ah, linux isnt supported | 19:56 |
| gnarface | ashleyk: you're probably just missing a non-free firmware package | 19:57 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure which one | 19:57 |
| ashleyk | should i try with the dvd iso ? | 19:57 |
| gnarface | you should be able to load the package into the installer | 19:58 |
| gnarface | or complete the install then copy the package over via usb | 19:58 |
| gnarface | you just have to figure out which one it is | 19:58 |
| ashleyk | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005499/mini-pcs.html | 19:59 |
| ashleyk | probably not worth it actually | 19:59 |
| gnarface | is it wifi you mean, or the wired ethernet that's not working? | 19:59 |
| ashleyk | ethernet | 19:59 |
| gnarface | oh, maybe you need the backport kernel because the hardware is that new | 20:02 |
| gnarface | that's possible too | 20:02 |
| ashleyk | or i just run windows 10 and network bridged vms | 20:03 |
| ashleyk | problem is i need an x86 device to run nessus because they went closed source | 20:04 |
| ashleyk | and dont provide arm compiles | 20:04 |
| ashleyk | but all this new hardware is locked down for microsoft | 20:05 |
| ashleyk | SAD! | 20:05 |
| specing | ashleyk: stop using proprietary software | 20:25 |
| ashleyk | i tried openvas, and its going the same direction | 20:25 |
| ashleyk | also, it doesnt work | 20:25 |
| ashleyk | i dont know how you can just take an opensource software and go closed source | 20:28 |
| unixman | ashleyk, what about OpenVAS doesn't work? I'm curious because I was going to suggest that to our SOC. | 20:30 |
| ashleyk | the CVE scanner doesnt work | 20:30 |
| unixman | :( | 20:30 |
| ashleyk | just the nmap part | 20:30 |
| ashleyk | for me at least, the CVE scanner always says the host in unchreachable and its undebuggable. pinging the host works fine | 20:31 |
| va7lnx | ashleyk: try disabling selinux on that openvas host. | 20:32 |
| ashleyk | selinux wasnt installed | 20:32 |
| va7lnx | hrm. I got nothing then. | 20:32 |
| unixman | That does seem like a configuration thing to me though. What port(s) is it trying to hit? | 20:33 |
| ashleyk | va7lnx, you have seen the "CVE" scanner work before? i cant even find any articles online about someone actually saying they use it or it works either. everyone is doing the other scan type | 20:33 |
| va7lnx | ashleyk: I was doing a quick google search. | 20:34 |
| ashleyk | ah | 20:34 |
| ashleyk | heh | 20:34 |
| va7lnx | anyhow. I have to get to class. 3 days left before finals. :\ | 20:34 |
| ashleyk | bye | 20:35 |
| va7lnx | i get to drive from burnaby metrotown to coquitlam centre for one 2 hour class. *sigh* | 20:37 |
| ashleyk | city life is a drag :p | 20:37 |
| va7lnx | it's worse when skytrain goes from here to there, but takes twice as long. | 20:38 |
| Digit | anyone know how to get xscreensaver to switch off the monitor after a while? in xscreensaver-demo's advanced tab, under "Display Power Management" there's standby, suspend & off, but i dont want to risk trying any of them in case they swich off my computer, rather than just stop my monitor emitting light. | 22:16 |
| tuxd3v | xscreen saver adpaced tab | 22:20 |
| tuxd3v | advanced | 22:20 |
| tuxd3v | Dyspolay power managment | 22:20 |
| tuxd3v | Quick power of in Blank only Mode | 22:20 |
| tuxd3v | Digit? | 22:22 |
| gnarface | Digit: don't worry, it means dpms settings by that. | 22:22 |
| tuxd3v | Digit, you are in Xfce right? | 22:23 |
| Digit | tuxd3v: nope. just xmonad. | 22:23 |
| tuxd3v | But you are using XScreen saver right? | 22:24 |
| Digit | yes, that's what i'm asking about. xscreensaver. | 22:24 |
| tuxd3v | advanced tab | 22:24 |
| Digit | yes, that's what i said | 22:24 |
| tuxd3v | then on Power Managment section | 22:24 |
| Digit | yes, that's what i said | 22:24 |
| tuxd3v | you have there a option | 22:24 |
| tuxd3v | Quick Power off in Blank only Mode | 22:25 |
| tuxd3v | activate it | 22:25 |
| tuxd3v | then | 22:25 |
| MinceR | Digit: those options only turn the monitor off | 22:25 |
| tuxd3v | test | 22:25 |
| MinceR | i use them daily | 22:25 |
| Digit | thanks MinceR. | 22:25 |
| MinceR | np | 22:25 |
| tuxd3v | CRTL+ALT+l | 22:26 |
| tuxd3v | ;) | 22:26 |
| * Digit hopes gnarface & MinceR are right. ~ sure he remembered those settings causing unwanted computer shutdown in the past | 22:27 | |
| gnarface | well, are you sure it wasn't a false positive? some of those screensavers aren't stable | 22:27 |
| gnarface | the opengl ones cause stability issues with nvidia proprietary and also will suck your battery dry really fast | 22:28 |
| gnarface | i recommend disabling them | 22:28 |
| tuxd3v | I had some troubles with xscreensaver in the past...but it was my fault, becasue I choosed times to hibernate very shorts.. | 22:28 |
| tuxd3v | then I suffered a shutdown | 22:28 |
| tuxd3v | Can we use Slim, has a screen saver type? | 22:29 |
| tuxd3v | imagine | 22:29 |
| tuxd3v | lock screen | 22:29 |
| tuxd3v | is used dpms and goes blank | 22:29 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure about that but e17 does have a built-in lock screen | 22:29 |
| tuxd3v | touch any key, it activates with the slim session manager? | 22:30 |
| Digit | typically i would just use galaxy. but i'll make sure the GL ones are off for this test. | 22:30 |
| ashleyk | hola tuxd3v | 22:31 |
| MinceR | xscreensaver has gotten really buggy lately, but i doubt it has code to shutdown the computer | 22:31 |
| gnarface | lately? it's never been better. it's always been exactly this buggy. | 22:32 |
| gnarface | at least from my perspective | 22:32 |
| gnarface | but a lot really has to do with which actual screensavers you activate | 22:32 |
| gnarface | they are of wildly varying quality and resource consumption | 22:33 |
| MinceR | i haven't seen it blank its own window during password entry (without timing out) before | 22:33 |
| MinceR | i could tell it's still there because it still constrains the pointer to its box and i can still unlock it | 22:33 |
| gnarface | you mean you have seen that? | 22:34 |
| MinceR | also, it realized its config file was overwritten before and reread it | 22:34 |
| MinceR | then it stopped doing that and had to be told explicitly | 22:34 |
| MinceR | yes | 22:34 |
| tuxd3v | Hi ashleyk | 22:34 |
| gnarface | hmm | 22:34 |
| gnarface | there are several xscreensaver-* packages in the repos. a couple of them are optional and i suspect they are where the more problematic screensavers are located. | 22:34 |
| gnarface | i would especially be wary of xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-gl-extra and xscreensaver-screensaver-webcollage | 22:35 |
| MinceR | i don't even use any modules, i have it set to blank or disable | 22:35 |
| * Digit goes for the test, blanking after 1m, standby after 2, suspend after 3, off after 4minues. ~~scared~~ ~~~ meditates ~~~ | 22:36 | |
| gnarface | Digit: you did make sure you don't have sleep or hibernate timeouts for the machine set elsewhere, right? | 22:36 |
| tuxd3v | MAn.. that times are very very short | 22:36 |
| * Digit pauses the test to check that | 22:36 | |
| gnarface | Standby: 305 Suspend: 306 Off: 307 | 22:37 |
| gnarface | system defaults in seconds^ | 22:37 |
| gnarface | for dpms | 22:37 |
| tuxd3v | I havce | 22:37 |
| tuxd3v | standby 30 minutes | 22:37 |
| tuxd3v | suspend after 60 minutes | 22:37 |
| tuxd3v | off after 120 minutes | 22:37 |
| Digit | gnarface: nothing obvious in /etc/X11/xorg.conf where else might there be sleep or hibernate timeouts? | 22:39 |
| gnarface | Digit: uh... acpi maybe? is it a laptop? some laptop brands have brand-specific packages and kernel modules too. maybe it could be in the window manager settings as well, though for xmonad i thought it was pretty minimal and didn't have such stuff. maybe you don't even need to worry about it, but i was just thinking of things that could give you false positives on your test | 22:40 |
| DonkeyHotei | sleep/hibernate timeouts are part of the DE, no? | 22:41 |
| gnarface | DonkeyHotei: sometimes, but i don't know for sure that's the only place they go. | 22:42 |
| gnarface | er, the only place they can go | 22:42 |
| DonkeyHotei | as for switching off the monitor, that's DPMS, which is part of the terminal | 22:42 |
| gnarface | yea, he's got that part covered with xscreensaver | 22:42 |
| gnarface | suspend/hibernate timeouts might also be exposed as raw files in /sys/ i think | 22:43 |
| tuxd3v | Found it: | 22:44 |
| tuxd3v | slimlock | 22:44 |
| tuxd3v | its the way to lock screen on slim | 22:44 |
| gnarface | interesting | 22:44 |
| * Digit returns from test | 22:44 | |
| gnarface | everything fine? | 22:44 |
| tuxd3v | it works | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | very very nice!! | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | test it on shell typing | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | slimlock | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | amazing | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | beutifull simplicity | 22:45 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 22:45 |
| Digit | hdmi monitor stays blue through standby, suspend, and off. dvi monitor does stop emitting light (cept the power light goes yellow, which is fine). (and my display power monitor's been broken for a while, so couldnt test). good to know my computer didnt enter hibernate or shutdown. :) thanks for your help gnarface & MinceR. | 22:46 |
| buZz | 'xset dpms force off' -should- turn off your monitor | 22:47 |
| buZz | if not, dpms isnt working well for you :) | 22:47 |
| Digit | so, before bed, i just need remember switch off my hdmi. | 22:47 |
| buZz | Digit: sounds like you're using a TV | 22:47 |
| buZz | and not a monitor ;) | 22:47 |
| buZz | TVs dont support DPMS usually | 22:47 |
| Digit | xset dpms force off just made my monitors emit black, not actually off. | 22:48 |
| buZz | Digit: it -should- turn them actually off | 22:48 |
| buZz | incl backlights | 22:48 |
| buZz | are you running the proper videodrivers for your graphics interface? | 22:48 |
| Digit | dell 3008wfpt 30" monitors. | 22:48 |
| Digit | nvidia | 22:48 |
| buZz | (as in, not nouveau for nvidia) | 22:48 |
| * Digit nods, ~ straight nvidia | 22:49 | |
| buZz | i run official nvidia drivers on a gtx1060 , xset dpms force off turns my screens -off- | 22:49 |
| buZz | incl backlights | 22:49 |
| buZz | on DP, DVI -and- HDMI connectors | 22:49 |
| gnarface | hmmm. HDMI might have an alternate feature available for turning the display off... HDMI CEC i think it's called? | 22:49 |
| Digit | could just be my cheap monitors. :3 | 22:49 |
| buZz | Digit: none of my monitors costed more then 50 euro | 22:49 |
| DonkeyHotei | CEC is different | 22:50 |
| gnarface | Digit: it could be. it depends on where and when you bought them. but here in the US it's illegal to sell displays that aren't DPMS-enabled | 22:50 |
| buZz | highly doubt those dell monitors -dont- support DPMS | 22:50 |
| Digit | buZz: yeah, i got greedy, went for 30", 3 of them, ~ cheapest i could find, 2nd hand. i forget how much, but ... more than 50 euro anyway. | 22:50 |
| buZz | i got a dell monitor here, supports DPMS fine | 22:51 |
| buZz | a DELL P2412H | 22:51 |
| gnarface | DonkeyHotei: i just brought up the CEC thing because there is cec-utils in the repos and i thought that if DPMS failed him it would be an alternative that didn't require getting up to push the power button manually | 22:52 |
| gnarface | i guess i don't even know for sure that cec-utils package is actually the same thing as HDMI CEC | 22:52 |
| gnarface | never touched it | 22:53 |
| Digit | i wonder if there's just some settings in the monitor that i could meddle with, to stop it emitting blue... for the one connected with hdmi. *fiddles* | 22:53 |
| gnarface | it's just bare HDMI right, no adapters? | 22:54 |
| DonkeyHotei | not every nvidia card supports cec, either | 22:54 |
| Digit | cable goes from hdmi to hdmi, monitor to card. | 22:54 |
| hightower2 | congrats on the conference | 22:58 |
| Digit | oh. that caused me a half second panic thinking i'd missed it. n_n | 22:59 |
| * Digit gives up on figuring out how to get his hdmi connected monitor to stop going brightest blue instead of not emitting light, for this attempt now, happy enough making do with his "remember to turn it off before bed" workaround | 23:01 | |
| Digit | glad i can now fall asleep watching things on the middle monitor (dvi), n not have it glare light through the night | 23:02 |
| gnarface | oh | 23:02 |
| gnarface | Digit: my projector does that too when all the inputs power off... you should be able to find a menu setting to change the color of that screen from blue to black or grey | 23:03 |
| Digit | i'll have another rummage around in the monitor's settings trying to find it. | 23:04 |
| gnarface | the hdmi connection must be going to sleep without making the monitor sleep | 23:04 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure where the blame for that would be | 23:04 |
| gnarface | but that probably means it has it's own menu settings for sleep timeouts too | 23:04 |
| Digit | yikes. tried one setting i was unsure of, now the screen's super bright n tiny on the monitor. eep. and the menu wont come back. O_O | 23:07 |
| Digit | oooo, and the other button i didnt know what it does changed it to full screen and non-superbright... | 23:08 |
| gnarface | must be scaling for lower resolutions than the display native? | 23:08 |
| Digit | ah, i see, that option in the menu just does the same as that other button. pbp setting. | 23:09 |
| Digit | oh, nope. nothing in the menus for stopping it be blue. | 23:13 |
| Digit | ah well. | 23:13 |
| Digit | normal service resumes in #devuan. :) | 23:13 |
| gnarface | Digit: well, the cheap ones have less features. it might still be worth consulting the manual though. | 23:15 |
| Digit | yup. cheap ones. that seems to be the case. no option to have it not do that. | 23:16 |
| misterunknown | ls -l | 23:23 |
| Digit | no such dir | 23:25 |
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