| Nematocyst | oh great. can't run synaptic. probably due to the above gdbus error mentioned above. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Nematocyst | i hate these kind of problems. i don't know jack about X | 00:03 |
| golinux | epergny: Yeah, it's a royal pain mostly thanks to having to deal with systemd dependencies | 00:05 |
| golinux | Are you still on ascii? | 00:06 |
| Nematocyst | me? that's what /etc/issue says. haven't done a system upgrade | 00:07 |
| Nematocyst | that's what everything in sources.list says | 00:08 |
| golinux | Or did you upgrade to beowulf which is a bit of a hairball due to merged /usr, no more gksu and other annoyances. | 00:08 |
| golinux | OK. I have no idea then. | 00:08 |
| Nematocyst | i think i'll revert the dbus related security updates, reboot and see | 00:09 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: there's a version confusion with slim which you might have hit with your upgrade | 00:10 |
| rrq | you should use 1.3.6-5+devuan6, which is the "bestest" version right now | 00:11 |
| rrq | unfortunately that's a lower version code than ascii's 1.3.6-5.1+devuan2 | 00:11 |
| rrq | even though it's temporally later | 00:11 |
| Nematocyst | hm. my slim version is 1.3.6-5.1+devuan2 since feb 13 | 00:12 |
| rrq | yoah. I'm not sure that does elogind.. does it? | 00:13 |
| Nematocyst | no idea. nothing display related is my thing. oh. feb 13, 2018 | 00:13 |
| rrq | 1.3.6-5+devuan6 is in experimental ... still being tested, but good afaik (I'm using it) | 00:14 |
| rrq | (doesn't say much of course) | 00:14 |
| Nematocyst | i don't know where to download the dbus packages that were replaced | 00:27 |
| rrq | mmm that slim should be fine with the ascii versions... have dbus=1.10.22-1+devuan1 | 00:30 |
| rrq | which packages? | 00:31 |
| Nematocyst | these are what i need: https://pastebin.com/7itUeJcR | 00:32 |
| Nematocyst | they are all devuan2 atm | 00:34 |
| rrq | that's all ascii/main | 00:34 |
| Nematocyst | so how to downgrade them? | 00:34 |
| rrq | ah; bad advice from me: when using "experimental" as a source.list point you *must* also add a Pin to it!! | 00:35 |
| xrogaan | what replaces gksu? | 00:35 |
| Nematocyst | i don't have anything experimental, btw | 00:35 |
| fsmithred | pkexec is the "replacement" for gksu, but it's more complicated | 00:36 |
| rrq | well all those dbus -devuan2 packages are from experimental | 00:36 |
| rrq | same version but -devuan1 are ascii/main | 00:36 |
| Nematocyst | rrq, here's my sources.list. shouldn't that just be stable? https://pastebin.com/hzjC5Gtd | 00:38 |
| fsmithred | I have 1.10.22-1+devuan2 in a live iso I made an hour ago | 00:38 |
| xrogaan | Nematocyst: you shouldn't use pkgmaster | 00:39 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: yes those don't point out experimental. Do you have anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* ? | 00:39 |
| xrogaan | cp /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.backup && sed -i 's/pkgmaster/deb/g' /etc/apt/sources.list | 00:40 |
| * rrq just realized I should apt-get update before talking.... | 00:40 | |
| Nematocyst | only two things in sources.list.d. one for palemoon browser, and the other completely commented since may 2018 | 00:41 |
| * rrq still updating. Oz is far away :) | 00:43 | |
| fsmithred | blocked tubes? | 00:43 |
| rrq | plural? | 00:43 |
| fsmithred | I assumed you could use more than one tube at a time | 00:44 |
| fsmithred | or that the path went through many tubes (traceroute supports this theory) | 00:45 |
| Nematocyst | so going offline is what, getting your tubes tied? | 00:45 |
| fsmithred | live-iso gets a new dbus/machine-id on every boot now! :) :) :) | 00:45 |
| fsmithred | metal test next | 00:46 |
| rrq | who is providing remote dbus services? anyone? | 00:46 |
| fsmithred | ? | 00:47 |
| fsmithred | I don't understand the question | 00:47 |
| rrq | that machine-id is used for dbus to distinguish between local and remote comm's | 00:47 |
| fsmithred | there's a new version today that fixes a potential problem | 00:47 |
| fsmithred | you can set it to be static in /etc/default/dbus | 00:48 |
| fsmithred | (power of choice) | 00:48 |
| rrq | so I was wondering (while updating) who is using dbus remotely? | 00:48 |
| fsmithred | no idea | 00:48 |
| fsmithred | um, does vnc over ssh count? | 00:48 |
| rrq | wouldn't think so | 00:49 |
| rrq | what's the dbus port? | 00:49 |
| fsmithred | never heard of it | 00:50 |
| rrq | (still 35 min's to go...) | 00:52 |
| fsmithred | new dbus feature works on metal too. | 00:52 |
| fsmithred | just to update the cache, or is it downloading packages now? | 00:53 |
| rrq | it's currently doing Contents for beowul/main | 00:53 |
| rrq | f | 00:53 |
| rrq | beowulf/main i386 I meant | 00:54 |
| rrq | anyhow, surely someone must do remote dbus comm's, since it has this bunch of code to recognize it... | 00:56 |
| furrywolf | ... it needs a machine id to figure out if it's local or remote? :) | 00:58 |
| furrywolf | how about just hacking it to use "local" whenever it reads the local machine id, and to send "remote" whenever it sends to another machine? :) | 00:59 |
| furrywolf | or, even better, having the receiving code used a fixed "remote" machine id whenever it gets a remote message, to prevent impersonating a local connection. | 00:59 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: I'm still at least half an hour away from continuing... | 01:01 |
| Nematocyst | rrq, i'm not even sure i want to downgrade. i guess to be 100% sure those updates were the problem. but i figure there's just a bug that will get addressed soon enough. not the end of the world to login console and issue startx | 01:03 |
| rrq | fair enough | 01:03 |
| Nematocyst | of course, there's the issue of 'apt update' partially failing due to these issues... ii do actually need to be able to update. heh | 01:07 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: check https://pastebin.com/HW1KDsP7 which is my current 'apt-cache policy' result for your packages | 01:20 |
| rrq | I'm still updating though; those would be as of some month ago, but they suggest all those -devuan2 versions come from experimental. | 01:22 |
| Nematocyst | i don't know how to obtain the old packages. i think downgrading is preferable b/c of: Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: Failed to execute program org.freedesktop.PackageKit: Permission denied when trying apt update. | 01:51 |
| rrq | ok. I'm wrong. The -devuan2 packages are now in ascii/main .. hmm | 01:51 |
| Nematocyst | probem is i rgularly clean my apt cache just to save backup space. i do have a recent backup with the old stuff installed. just the apt cache is empty | 01:52 |
| rrq | yes. hmm. let's see what the iso has... | 01:55 |
| Nematocyst | maybe that's easiest. restore the backup, omitting /home... | 01:56 |
| sokan | I'm in love with dev1 so far :3 | 02:01 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: ok, my devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_cd-1.iso has dbus_1.10.22-1+devuan1_amd64.deb if that's your platform. | 02:03 |
| Nematocyst | rrq can't i just pin the earlier version and update it? | 02:04 |
| rrq | maybe. we're straddling the borderline of my knowledge :) | 02:05 |
| Nematocyst | ok. my backup is Mar 2. i think i'll just use that, omitting /home | 02:06 |
| rrq | I'm a little surprised that the ascii/main version has changed; esp as it's a devuan package. But I'm not a process fundamentalist, and anyhow, I haven't read any release process documentation to begin with... | 02:08 |
| Nematocyst | back of my mind says this is something gonna cause issues for several ppl, thus spawning a fix + exact instructions... makes me want to ignore it for now | 02:09 |
| rrq | if you find the deb's, I think you could "dpkg -i" them, and pin the versions | 02:10 |
| rrq | yes, I certainly won't upgrade my work horse for a while | 02:12 |
| fsmithred | you want to keep the older versions? | 02:12 |
| Nematocyst | probably not. once things are fixed. | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | to downgrade you would do something like 'apt-get install dbus=1.0.whatever | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | and same for the other packages you want | 02:13 |
| Nematocyst | says not found | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | but you'd still need to pin them | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | huh | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | lemme try | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | wow | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | ok, do you have the older packages in /var/cache/apt/archives? | 02:15 |
| Nematocyst | heh. no. that's why i assume | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | I do. You want them? | 02:16 |
| Nematocyst | clean my cache prior to backups... might have to stop that | 02:16 |
| fsmithred | you actually have to change configs to get apt to keep the packages now | 02:16 |
| Nematocyst | fsmithred, yeah. do you have the i386 and amd64 version of libdbus-1-3? | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | just amd64 | 02:18 |
| Nematocyst | i had a pastebin with all the ones i needed earlier. but i restarted chat | 02:18 |
| Nematocyst | i'll restore from backup then. thanks | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | I think it was 4 packages | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | ok | 02:19 |
| rrq | five | 02:19 |
| rrq | libdbus-1-dev:amd64 dbus-x11:amd64 libdbus-1-3:i386 libdbus-1-3:amd64 dbus:amd64 | 02:20 |
| Nematocyst | moment of truth. reboot time | 02:23 |
| Nematocyst | well that was mostly painless. just have to update streamlink again... | 02:25 |
| Nematocyst | can you pin multiple packages in one pref file? | 02:31 |
| rrq | yes, put a blank line between them | 02:32 |
| rrq | between the "stanzas" I mean | 02:32 |
| rrq | mmm maybe many packages on same line with space works too... | 02:33 |
| fsmithred | I think either globbing or regex works. Not sure which. | 02:36 |
| Nematocyst | i didn't have much luck pinning it. for the time being, i'm content to install other updates manually, on the theory this problem i'm having is temporary and that no pin is ultimately needed | 03:10 |
| rrq | Nematocyst: possibly the terminology should: to *hold* the packages rather than "pin" them. | 03:42 |
| rrq | you'd use eg "apt-mark hold dbus" for that; holds that package at its current version. | 03:43 |
| Nematocyst | rrq, perfect. that works well | 03:44 |
| sokan | hey. Is it possible to have KDE installed but without sddm? | 12:45 |
| furrymcgee | sddm is the default x-desktop-manager installed with task-kde-desktop, there are other display managers aptitude search ~Px-display-manager | 12:56 |
| sokan | furrymcgee: I was thinking of logging in via xinit only and get away from any dm | 15:58 |
| sokan | s/dm/greeter | 15:58 |
| furrymcgee | hi | 15:58 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: you can do that in ascii, but please read the release notes | 16:15 |
| sokan | will do KatolaZ :) | 16:15 |
| sokan | ceres is rolling as in arch/gentoo or pure chaotic unstable? | 16:33 |
| sokan | had a talk with a friend about rolling releases and mentioned that dev1 can turned to rolling as well | 16:34 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: who said that? | 16:35 |
| sokan | that's a false acusation? | 16:36 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: I don't get what you mean | 16:36 |
| sokan | erm | 16:36 |
| sokan | KatolaZ: arch and others are rolling releases. devuan, ubuntu etc are stable (afaik). Is Ceres rolling in the arch way? | 16:37 |
| sokan | As in not needing a massive upgrade after 2 years or something | 16:38 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: debian/devuan is not a "stable" release | 16:38 |
| KatolaZ | it's just non-rolling | 16:38 |
| KatolaZ | in de??an a stable release only gets security updates | 16:38 |
| KatolaZ | so no new versions of the software | 16:38 |
| sokan | ok. I see | 16:39 |
| sokan | So difference between say ASCII, Beowulf and ceres is? | 16:39 |
| KatolaZ | ascii is stable | 16:39 |
| KatolaZ | beowulf is more or less the equivalent of debian testing | 16:39 |
| sokan | so no new software and only security updates? | 16:40 |
| KatolaZ | no new versions or new packages in a stable release | 16:40 |
| sokan | aha | 16:40 |
| KatolaZ | all the development in Debian happens in unstable | 16:40 |
| KatolaZ | new packages are uploaded always to unstable | 16:40 |
| KatolaZ | then, if they are behaving well, they are moved to testing after a period (normally 10 days) | 16:41 |
| sokan | testing is "in development"? | 16:41 |
| KatolaZ | yeah | 16:42 |
| KatolaZ | testing will become the new stable | 16:43 |
| KatolaZ | the process involves a period called "freeze" | 16:43 |
| KatolaZ | during which testing does not receive any new packages or package versions | 16:43 |
| KatolaZ | only bug fixes | 16:43 |
| KatolaZ | at the end of freeze, testing becomes the new stable | 16:44 |
| KatolaZ | and the whole unstable branch becomes the new testing | 16:44 |
| sokan | aha. so eventually beowulf will become the new stable and ceres the new testing etc | 16:45 |
| KatolaZ | no | 16:45 |
| KatolaZ | ceres will always remain unstable | 16:45 |
| sokan | oooooh. I see | 16:45 |
| KatolaZ | as sid will always be unstable in Debian | 16:45 |
| sokan | and kernel change comes when exactly? Update to a newer version | 16:54 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: which kernel change? | 17:10 |
| sokan | current version is 4.9.0. When does a bump occur? | 17:21 |
| KatolaZ | in ascii? | 17:23 |
| KatolaZ | oh forget the .0 | 17:23 |
| KatolaZ | that's just the package name :) | 17:23 |
| KatolaZ | it's 4.9.110 I guess | 17:24 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: sorry, it's actually 4.9.144 | 17:24 |
| KatolaZ | just | 17:24 |
| KatolaZ | apt-cache show linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 | 17:25 |
| sokan | okey doke | 17:29 |
| sokan | and in ceres one can upgrade the kernel as well? | 17:29 |
| sokan | say from 4.9.x to 4.11 | 17:29 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: if you need a newer kernel in ascii, just use the one from ascii-backports | 17:30 |
| sokan | hmmm | 17:31 |
| KatolaZ | ascii-backports (as any stable-backports) includes some updated packages | 17:31 |
| KatolaZ | normally coming directly from unstable | 17:31 |
| KatolaZ | but guaranteed to work well on stable | 17:31 |
| sokan | If I go ceres, the system will most probably break at all times? | 17:32 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: it might not break as in totally broken | 17:34 |
| KatolaZ | but you need to know your way around De??an if you want to use sid | 17:34 |
| KatolaZ | well, unstable in general | 17:34 |
| KatolaZ | testing is a good compromise | 17:34 |
| KatolaZ | IMHO | 17:34 |
| KatolaZ | but YMMV | 17:34 |
| sokan | hm. | 17:35 |
| sokan | how can I check which packages are in ceres and in beowulf? | 17:35 |
| KatolaZ | what do you mean exactly? | 17:35 |
| KatolaZ | each of them have 55k+packages.... | 17:35 |
| KatolaZ | pkginfo.devuan.org | 17:35 |
| KatolaZ | that can be a good place to start | 17:35 |
| sokan | excellent! | 17:35 |
| KatolaZ | (please consider that atm pkginfo.devuan.org reports only packages in amd64) | 17:35 |
| sokan | thanks for the info KatolaZ . You've been MORE than helpful and informative ^^ | 17:36 |
| sokan | KatolaZ: one final question: I can install https://www.plex.tv/media-server-downloads/ (amd64 .deb package) and install it on devuan as well? | 17:40 |
| KatolaZ | it's your call sokan | 17:41 |
| sokan | it is possible right? | 17:42 |
| gnarface | sokan: risky business | 17:43 |
| gnarface | i advise against mixing distro packages in general | 17:43 |
| gnarface | you'll probably get away with it, but if something goes wrong it's likely to be the type of thing that unravels your whole install sometime later after you've forgotten about this | 17:44 |
| gnarface | if the package doesn't have any dependencies though, it's probably fine | 17:44 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: with third party repos you are on your own, as in Debian | 17:44 |
| sokan | okey doke. :) | 17:44 |
| gnarface | in my experience, usually it works, but then breaks some future upgrade of everything else, in an unrecoverable way | 17:45 |
| gnarface | so you know... if you decide to do it, make a backup first | 17:45 |
| KatolaZ | well, nothing is unrecoverable in De??an :) | 17:46 |
| gnarface | ok that's technically true but practically ... eh, it sometimes can be such a mess it's actually faster to reinstall | 17:46 |
| gnarface | and i personally don't know how to manually correct all the package dependencies at that point | 17:46 |
| KatolaZ | with pins gnarface | 17:47 |
| gnarface | plus who even knows what the preinst/postinst scripts do... | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | pins can make magic | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | with pins you can also downgrade a beowulf to jessie | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | ;) | 17:47 |
| gnarface | oh hmmm. heavy pinning ... interesting ida | 17:47 |
| gnarface | idea | 17:47 |
| KatolaZ | yep | 17:48 |
| KatolaZ | I have done it several times | 17:48 |
| KatolaZ | from one release to the one before | 17:48 |
| gnarface | sokan: as they used to tell me in #debian... if you break it you get to keep all the pieces, and you're entitled to a full refund :) | 17:49 |
| KatolaZ | as long as the packages are still in the repo ;) | 17:49 |
| sokan | gnarface:haha good one | 17:49 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 17:49 |
| sokan | the main issue with that plex is that it's systemd I think... So it'sll painful to get it to work under sysvinit/openr | 17:50 |
| sokan | c | 17:50 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: the only way to be sure something won't work is by proving it won't work ;) | 17:51 |
| sokan | scientific method :P | 17:52 |
| sokan | damn it! why couldn't it be in main repos XD | 17:52 |
| gnarface | sokan: do they have a src package available? you could try to build it against devuan deps, without systemd. sometimes that's possible | 17:52 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: it's quite possible it is non-free software? | 17:53 |
| sokan | yeh... :\ | 17:53 |
| sokan | player is open, server isn't | 17:53 |
| KatolaZ | that's why than | 17:53 |
| KatolaZ | ~then | 17:53 |
| sokan | stupid closed-source | 17:54 |
| gnarface | what is plex? is there a free alternative? | 17:54 |
| gnarface | oh, media server | 17:54 |
| gnarface | there's tons of those | 17:54 |
| gnarface | man don't even bother with it | 17:54 |
| sokan | gnarface: nothing that's really on part with it atm. It's a media server with streaming and transcoding capabilities | 17:54 |
| gnarface | i do that with ffmpeg and bash ... | 17:55 |
| sokan | but I"m all ear with alternatives | 17:55 |
| gnarface | mythtv is popular | 17:55 |
| gnarface | vlc is janky but also has such features | 17:55 |
| unixman_home | Yeah, I was wondering what does Plex provide that MythTV doesn't? | 17:56 |
| gnarface | i don't know plex, maybe it's got a really nice interface, but i'm sure you can still get the job done with stuff that is in the repo | 17:57 |
| KatolaZ | sokan: there is really plenty of them | 17:57 |
| KatolaZ | even vlc can do streaming nd transcoding online | 17:57 |
| gnarface | the only problem i had with vlc was just that it's not smart enough to know when you're giving it impossible transcoding settings. it'll try it and just choke... | 17:58 |
| gnarface | so you have to know what your encoders and decoders can do | 17:58 |
| gnarface | but they do have some info on their website about compatibilities | 17:58 |
| KatolaZ | yeah indeed | 17:59 |
| gnarface | format/container/codec compatibilities, and such. there's a whole chart on their site | 17:59 |
| KatolaZ | that's a nightmare :D | 17:59 |
| gnarface | that's why i ended up just streaming with ffmpeg directly | 18:00 |
| gnarface | by the time i'd figured out enough about vlc i didn't need it anymore | 18:00 |
| gnarface | but that's personal preference, entirely subjective | 18:00 |
| gnarface | i like bash scripts | 18:00 |
| unixman_home | +1 | 18:06 |
| gnarface | sokan: hmmm.... i'm seeing something in the repo called "pipewire" too | 18:20 |
| gnarface | might be useful, i don't know | 18:21 |
| gnarface | i'm also seeing icecast2, but i thought that was for music only | 18:21 |
| gnarface | it's been a long time since i tried it though | 18:22 |
| sokan | ah! correction: that plex package is for debian 8+ as well | 20:58 |
| sokan | I just realized | 20:59 |
| sokan | there's also erm | 20:59 |
| sokan | what was the name again | 20:59 |
| sokan | gerbera | 21:00 |
| DonkeyHotei | vlc will also stream to icecast iirc | 21:02 |
| furrymcgee | do /etc/mtab and /run/shm exist in devuan? | 21:22 |
| gnarface | yes | 21:34 |
| gnarface | your go missing? | 21:35 |
| gnarface | *yours? | 21:35 |
| furrymcgee | yes in debian with sysvinit | 21:36 |
| furrymcgee | what packages creates this files in devuan | 21:36 |
| gnarface | hmmm, | 21:38 |
| gnarface | not sure honestly | 21:38 |
| gnarface | the kernel, or udev | 21:38 |
| gnarface | i would think | 21:38 |
| gnarface | if you have a custom kernel, maybe you forgot something? | 21:39 |
| gnarface | /dev/shm might be something that could have been disabled in sysctl.conf too | 21:40 |
| gnarface | or a kernel command-line parameter, or something... | 21:40 |
| furrymcgee | I mean what package is creating the links, not the /dev /proc files | 21:42 |
| gnarface | oh | 21:42 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 21:42 |
| gnarface | not sure about that either but if it's not the kernel or udev, it's gotta be something in the startup scripts | 21:43 |
| furrymcgee | ther is /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/debian.conf in debian | 21:43 |
| gnarface | i think /etc/mtab is created by sysv-rc | 21:46 |
| gnarface | at boot time | 21:46 |
| gnarface | did you change your init system? | 21:47 |
| furrymcgee | yes there is a shell function mtab_migrate, thank you | 21:52 |
| gnarface | np | 21:54 |
| sokan | how can I migrate from ascii to ceres? (or even beowolf) | 23:19 |
| Evilham | ceres ~~ sid on debian, that means, thints do break sometimes | 23:21 |
| Evilham | if you want to migrate to beowulf, you should just change your sources.list | 23:21 |
| Evilham | and point them to beowulf (if you use testing, you'll be pulled to next testing once beowulf is released, so you better use codenames and change manually) | 23:22 |
| Evilham | check here: https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list | 23:23 |
| sokan | so it's only a nvim /etc/apt/sources.list and s/ascii/beowulf? | 23:23 |
| rrq | .. except that there is no beowulf-backports | 23:26 |
| sokan | it's to be expected I reckon :P | 23:29 |
| Evilham | yup, there's nothing speciall about it :-D | 23:30 |
| Evilham | just usual disclaimer: beowulf is not out-out yet, so upgrading is not necessarily painless, that being said, many people have experienced painless transition, so anything odd that happens should be reported | 23:31 |
| sokan | will keep it in mind :) | 23:33 |
| sokan | I'm used to living on the edge so... I can't go "stable" now XD | 23:34 |
| sokan | Evilham: I presume going ceres is more complex than the above | 23:44 |
| Evilham | Not really | 23:47 |
| Evilham | Just riskier | 23:47 |
| sokan | going to check it out now. Anything I should be extra careful before trying it out? :P | 23:53 |
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