| brocashelm | long live devuan, down with systemd and distros that support it | 03:55 |
|---|---|---|
| furrymcgee | my example package uses systemctl enable && invoke-rc.d start, how does enable work with invoke-rc.d and not systemctl? | 10:22 |
| KatolaZ | furrymcgee: which package? | 11:00 |
| furrymcgee | https://github.com/shiftctrl-io/elephant-shed/blob/master/debian/elephant-shed-grafana.postinst | 11:11 |
| shnaps | So, I occured strange problem. dell_smm_hwmon: unable to get SMM Dell signature What do I suppose to do with it? Googled it, haven't found any fix | 12:06 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: what is the problem? | 12:09 |
| KatolaZ | I mean, where did you read that, and does it preclude you from doing something in particular? | 12:09 |
| shnaps | No visible problem yet | 12:10 |
| shnaps | Got this message form dmseg log | 12:10 |
| shnaps | Not sure but I can guess that my fans not working normally | 12:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have noticed this on startup I guess something added to the kernel lately? | 12:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I assumed it was laptop battery not an official dell one. | 12:14 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: the kernel does a lot of automagic guessing during startup | 12:19 |
| KatolaZ | there are lots of things it tries and logs in dmesg | 12:19 |
| shnaps | Anything that I can do with it? | 12:20 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: I don't think you should do anything at all | 12:21 |
| KatolaZ | unless you see anything strange happening | 12:21 |
| shnaps | Like my laptop not using fans? | 12:22 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: how do you know? | 12:22 |
| KatolaZ | acpi -V | 12:22 |
| shnaps | Thermal 0: ok, 39.5 degrees C Thermal 0: trip point 0 switches to mode critical at temperature 107.0 degrees C | 12:23 |
| KatolaZ | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2332953 <- shnaps | 12:23 |
| KatolaZ | that's the first link on any search engine with "dell_smm_hwmon" | 12:23 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 12:23 |
| shnaps | Yeah, I seen it | 12:24 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: why should your fan be active at 39 degrees? | 12:24 |
| KatolaZ | o_O | 12:24 |
| shnaps | Well, usually they are active | 12:25 |
| shnaps | Isn't supposed dell-smm-hwmon module supposed to work in Dell laptops? | 12:25 |
| FlibberTGibbet | which model dell is it, shnaps ? | 12:26 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: am I a Dell technician? | 12:26 |
| KatolaZ | o_O | 12:26 |
| KatolaZ | https://www.dell.com/community/Linux-Developer-Systems/XPS-13-9350-fan-control/td-p/5036614 | 12:26 |
| shnaps | KatolaZ, nope, lol | 12:27 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: it looks like you might need i8kutils | 12:27 |
| shnaps | FlibberTGibbet, e6330 | 12:27 |
| KatolaZ | bbl | 12:27 |
| FlibberTGibbet | dell are forever saying "update the firmware" for M4800s, which seems to fix the fan speeds for around a week before it's back to "let's impersonate a hovercraft" :) | 12:27 |
| KatolaZ | if ain't broken, don't fix it ;) | 12:28 |
| FlibberTGibbet | typing this on an E6330 and no fan issues, which is saying something given the other bodges that the refurbisher inflicted on in | 12:28 |
| FlibberTGibbet | on it | 12:28 |
| shnaps | So, I installed xsensors. Got cpu at 60 degrees C and still no fans running | 12:33 |
| shnaps | KatolaZ, also installed i8kutils. Any ideas what should I do next? | 12:33 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: read the manpages | 12:34 |
| shnaps | No manual entry for i8kutils | 12:35 |
| KatolaZ | and take a breath ;) | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: there are manpages for the utilities inside the package | 12:36 |
| shnaps | KatolaZ, have no idea how to get to them | 12:37 |
| FlibberTGibbet | try this https://github.com/vitorafsr/i8kutils | 12:37 |
| KatolaZ | shnaps: dpkg -L i8kutils | 12:37 |
| KatolaZ | look for stuff under a "*/bin" or "*/sbin" folder | 12:38 |
| shnaps | FlibberTGibbet, will take a look | 12:38 |
| shnaps | Seems like i8kutils fixed problem | 13:09 |
| shnaps | Fans are working and I don't have this message anymore. Thanks guys! | 13:09 |
| ejr | if i want to upgrade ascii to ceres, do i only need to replace all "ascii" instances in sources.list? | 14:33 |
| ejr | (including ascii-security and ascii-updates for ceres-security and ceres-updates?) | 14:34 |
| fsmithred | there's no -security or -updates for ceres (unstable) | 14:38 |
| ejr | ok, then i will leave those out. | 14:39 |
| ejr | thanks | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | I would upgrade to beowulf first | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | instead of skipping over it | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | might not really make a difference, but just in case... | 14:39 |
| ejr | i'm just playing around a bit, so i will try if that jump works. if not, I'll reinstall and do beowulf first | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | did you see the discussion about upgrading from ascii at the forum? | 14:40 |
| ejr | no. about a year ago i read about upgrading from 1.0 to ascii, but forgot how exactly it worked | 14:42 |
| fsmithred | well, the discussion talks about pinning policykit-1 to ascii versions, but I think that advice is obsolete as of last night. | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | new polkit is in beowulf and ceres | 14:49 |
| buZz | i so want newer nvidia drivers in ascii-backports -_- | 14:49 |
| fsmithred | jessie to ascii (should be similar): https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | ascii to beowulf (polkit info should be obsolete): https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2301 | 14:51 |
| ham5urg | hi all, these are my first steps with devuan and systemVinit. I installed a simple "apt install samba" which starts three services: snbd nmbd samba-ad-dc. I expect that these services are dependencies. I tried a simple "update-rc.d -n smbd disable" to see what will happen. The command would disable smbd as expected but wont shutdown the other services nmbd and samba-ac-dc. Is there a way to find always the correct dependencies or | 15:07 |
| ham5urg | do I have to know the dependencies? | 15:07 |
| ham5urg | smbd* | 15:10 |
| djph | ham5urg: what? | 15:26 |
| djph | they're three separate services -> smbd (samba daemon) nmbd (netbios daemon, iirc) and samba-ad-dc (samba active directory / domain controller) | 15:27 |
| eyalroz | I'm building a package which (says it) needs Qt5ScriptConfig.cmake or qt5script-config.cmake , which it can't find. I've ensured I have libqt5script5 and libqt5scripttools5 - but that doesn't help. What should I do? | 16:00 |
| eyalroz | (PS - The app is Kile brts3) | 16:01 |
| eyalroz | Kile 3.0 beta 2* | 16:01 |
| fsmithred | eyalroz, does the configure script have an option to specify the location of the qt libs? You probably just need to tell it where to look. | 16:06 |
| eyalroz | @fsmithred: I suppose it probably does, somehow, but - where should I point it to? | 16:07 |
| fsmithred | that's the tricky part | 16:08 |
| eyalroz | fsmithred: Ok, have a look at this: http://paste.debian.net/1063979/ | 16:08 |
| eyalroz | It wants Qt5ScriptConfig.cmake or qt5script-config.cmake | 16:08 |
| eyalroz | but no package seems to have that | 16:08 |
| eyalroz | _and_ it's not even a CMake script which Kile provided - it's a script that's part of the distro that's giving me this error. | 16:09 |
| fsmithred | probably has a different name in debian | 16:09 |
| ham5urg | djph: If I do "apt install samba" I would like to deactive with "update-rc.d disable samba" | 16:10 |
| djph | ham5urg: and that's what you _did_ | 16:11 |
| djph | 'samba' (the package) contains three discrete applications. | 16:11 |
| KatolaZ | I can confirm the three of them are very discrete, and won't disturb you without reason.... | 16:12 |
| KatolaZ | :P | 16:12 |
| fsmithred | any messing with them is reason enough | 16:13 |
| djph | KatolaZ: that's not what I meant and you know it. | 16:13 |
| KatolaZ | :P | 16:15 |
| KatolaZ | just kidding | 16:16 |
| fsmithred | eyalroz, those lib package you installed only contain docs and one file each for /usr/share/lintian/overrides/ | 16:18 |
| fsmithred | you probably need to install something else, but I don't know what | 16:19 |
| ham5urg | djph: "update-rc.d samba disable 2" does not work. "update-rc.d smbd disable 2" is showing a warning. But still I see "/etc/rc.2d/S02nmbd". This should be automatically disabled too as I did not activate it. It was automatically activated by installation of samba. | 16:19 |
| fsmithred | probably some -dev package(s) | 16:19 |
| eyalroz | @fsmithred: I'll looke at all of the qt*dev ones | 16:21 |
| fsmithred | read the libqt5script5(tools) docs and maybe look in the lintian/overrides/ files. May be some clues there. | 16:22 |
| fsmithred | ham5urg, if you only told update-rc.d to disable smbd, then that's the only link it will touch. | 16:22 |
| eyalroz | fsmithred: It's qtscript5-dev rather than qt5script-dev. What genius package naming! | 16:23 |
| fsmithred | do the same for nmbd | 16:23 |
| fsmithred | lol | 16:23 |
| fsmithred | they wanted to make sure you know it's 5 | 16:23 |
| ham5urg | fsmithred: I did but it's an unexpected behaviour for me. | 16:24 |
| KatolaZ | ham5urg: what is an unexpected behaviour? | 16:24 |
| KatolaZ | the activation of services upon install? | 16:25 |
| djph | ham5urg: If you wanna stop nmbd and/or samba-ad-dc, then stop _them_, not _samba_ | 16:26 |
| djph | ... it's like saying "stopping apache doesn't stop mysql" | 16:27 |
| ham5urg | apt install samba which starts multiple services under different names. A dummy service would be good. If this dummy service would be "samba" than a "update-rc.d samba disable 2 3 4 5" should disable all services started by "apt install samba" | 16:27 |
| ham5urg | Nevertheless, I'm happy to be without systemd-crap. Devuan is a good thing. | 16:29 |
| eyalroz | fsmithred: So, got to another dead end, since Kile 3 needs a higher version of the KDE framework files (5.31, we have 5.28) | 16:30 |
| djph | ham5urg: you seem to misunderstand how the "samba" package works. | 16:35 |
| ejr | any idea on where in /sys (?) to look the file in which i can disable the beeping that is echoed by my thinkpad when i hit tab when there is nothing to autocomplete? | 21:11 |
| ejr | i remember there is one file that can easily be changed, but don't know which one... | 21:11 |
| _stephen_ | xset b of | 21:11 |
| _stephen_ | xset b off | 21:11 |
| ejr | _stephen_: thanks, but that doesnt help when i am not running x | 21:12 |
| _stephen_ | yeah, I recall muting stuff didn't actually fix the problem when I was using a thinkpad, too... | 21:12 |
| _stephen_ | Seemms like there was a module responsible for it... I guess the real lesson is I shouldn't have replied. | 21:14 |
| ejr | np | 21:14 |
| _stephen_ | maybe http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_disable_the_pc_speaker_(beep!) has something | 21:14 |
| ejr | hah, found it: /proc/acpi/ibm/beep | 21:14 |
| golinux | I run this at startup and work in silence: xset b off | 21:20 |
| gnarface | i just pass "-vb" to urxvt | 21:23 |
| golinux | Seems there are many ways to do it | 21:27 |
| gnarface | well "xset" is probably the right way. but i find i'm only really tabbing out enough for it to be annoying in urxvt | 21:28 |
| gnarface | and that way i can just embed the setting in the wharf icon | 21:28 |
| gnarface | disabling it outside of Xorg seems to be a somewhat hardware-specific trick | 21:29 |
| gnarface | sometimes alsa can mute it on it's own | 21:29 |
| gnarface | sometimes you have to manually blacklist the pcm beep module (whatever it's called, i forget) | 21:29 |
| gnarface | then there's acpi support for it with ibm hardware sometimes apparently... | 21:29 |
| gnarface | worst case scenario though you can usually just unplug that little speaker :-p | 21:30 |
| brocashelm | what would y'all do if poettering came by this chat? kickban? hahahaha | 21:38 |
| gnarface | only if he tried to start shit | 21:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Bound to become #debianfork material in minutes...? | 21:40 |
| brocashelm | "hey guys! i started a fork of devuan: devuanD, which is devuan with systemd! tell me what you think!" | 21:40 |
| gnarface | yea, i'm sure if he came by #debianfork instead, he'd be welcome to grandstand and argue for hours or even days before eventually doing something illegal | 21:41 |
| brocashelm | *gets kickbanned 1 second later* | 21:41 |
| brocashelm | yeah, he's a scumbag. glad devuan exists because artix and gentoo aren't my style | 21:41 |
| gnarface | i'm sure at some point he'd lose his cool and a real-world threat of violence or other illegal retribution would slip out, and then he'd be kickbanned and probably reported to the fbi and his employers too | 21:41 |
| gnarface | but yea, this isn't even a discussion for this channel to begin with. | 21:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Can I run this devuanD with sysV init? ... | 21:42 |
| brocashelm | haha | 21:42 |
| brocashelm | it boggles my mind how so many distros are just openly accepting that garbage | 21:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am surprised the recent security issues hasn't stared it up again. | 21:44 |
| brocashelm | it contradicts unix philosophy of keep it simple stupid to have an init with a pid 1 that tries to do anything and everything before pid 2 and beyond can even have a say | 21:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | "Do one thing and do it well" I believe | 21:45 |
| brocashelm | so, i'm really glad to hear about devuan and that people are now switching to it. i'm coming from linux mint and will replace all machines altogether | 21:45 |
| brocashelm | yeah, "do one thing and do it well" is another standard | 21:46 |
| r3boot | Mja, in all fairness, the amount of hatred on a personal level that you see publicly wrt Poettering is quite sad. I personally believe that FLOSS land will be in a better state once people start respecting each other .. knowing how communities throughout history have worked has made me fairly negative wrt how this whole debate will play out in history, nor if it actually will matter in the long run | 21:51 |
| r3boot | <-- will shutup now, sorry for bringing up this subject | 21:52 |
| KatolaZ | r3boot: poettering has not behaved any better than those people attacking him, though | 21:54 |
| KatolaZ | I agree that hatred is bad | 21:54 |
| KatolaZ | but treating users are assholes is not any better, IMHO | 21:54 |
| r3boot | I fully agree with that | 21:56 |
| r3boot | it's just that the technical became politicized in a major way imho | 21:57 |
| r3boot | regardless of who is to blame for that, I dont think it's beneficial to the floss community as a whole, personally | 21:58 |
| KatolaZ | r3boot: the guy is an arrogant | 21:59 |
| KatolaZ | this does not help easying out any conflict | 22:00 |
| r3boot | and the more fragmented the community will become, the more weak it will become towards commercial threats (IBM, SuSE, Canonical) | 22:00 |
| KatolaZ | r3boot: this is a legend. IMHO | 22:00 |
| r3boot | I fully agree with that KatolaZ, and if I had any say in it, I would have (atleast) fired him for behavioral problems | 22:00 |
| KatolaZ | I don't like the calls for uniformity | 22:00 |
| KatolaZ | those have historically came only from corporate interests | 22:01 |
| r3boot | thats not what I'm trying to say iig, but this is really hard and subtle to explain, and should best be done IRL, imho | 22:01 |
| KatolaZ | and have nothing to do with the FOSS community | 22:01 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 22:01 |
| r3boot | I have good intentions iig :D | 22:01 |
| KatolaZ | yeah I know | 22:01 |
| KatolaZ | but most of those who praise "uniformity" don't | 22:01 |
| r3boot | Easy way out eh? :) | 22:02 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 22:02 |
| brocashelm | "uniformity" also applies to all distros being "uniformed" ;) | 22:02 |
| r3boot | brocashelm: in a way, they have been ever since the concept of GNU/Linux distro was invented | 22:03 |
| KatolaZ | well, yes and no | 22:03 |
| KatolaZ | there was little uniformity between debian and suse... | 22:03 |
| r3boot | (since they all use same software +/-; the difference is in the way how it's all hooked together) | 22:03 |
| KatolaZ | r3boot: then all the unix systems are uniform, according to that principle | 22:04 |
| r3boot | yep, in a way, I think that's actually one of the powers of the concept of unix | 22:04 |
| KatolaZ | the power is in the principles behind that software | 22:05 |
| r3boot | linux just took it from the OS level to the distro level | 22:05 |
| KatolaZ | IMHO | 22:05 |
| KatolaZ | not in any specific tool or toolbox | 22:05 |
| r3boot | Oh, yes, that is the big distrinctive feature of all distro's | 22:05 |
| r3boot | thats why I *love* devuan, it's one of the last big distro's that still fights for independence | 22:06 |
| r3boot | the 'true' meaning of what FLOSS was all about back in the day so to say | 22:07 |
| KatolaZ | biab | 22:07 |
| r3boot | ghe, come to think about it, it's a bit how OpenBSD was in the 90s; Rebellious, with a big fat middlefinger towards the us, and putting their money where their mouth is | 22:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | IBM SuSE Canonical? Why are commercial a threat? | 22:14 |
| r3boot | sixwheeledbeast: because it used to be (mostly) maintained by people like you and me | 22:14 |
| r3boot | doing for the cause(tm), instead of the support contracts | 22:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I still don't see the threat. You miss out many others Red Hat Novell etc | 22:16 |
| r3boot | redhat is ibm nowadays, and novell got bought as well afaik | 22:16 |
| brocashelm | and then the "CoC" happened last year | 22:20 |
| brocashelm | preferring "protected classes" over good code | 22:20 |
| r3boot | Yep. Political over technical | 22:21 |
| brocashelm | terms like "master" and "man" are politicized to the top (unreasonably so) | 22:21 |
| brocashelm | man = manual | 22:21 |
| r3boot | thing is, communities will inevitably drift towards politics, see history | 22:21 |
| brocashelm | sadly, yea | 22:21 |
| r3boot | the trick is, how you handle it as a community I think, and I dont have a clear answer for that, or atleast not one that will make this whole NOT politicized :P | 22:22 |
| brocashelm | i mean, stallman is very into far left politics, but he makes good arguments for technology and software freedom | 22:23 |
| r3boot | yep | 22:23 |
| brocashelm | i like that linus himself is also blunt | 22:23 |
| brocashelm | or was | 22:24 |
| brocashelm | until being pressured to apologize | 22:24 |
| r3boot | or devuan, having the balls to not use systemd AND maintain replacements for parts of it's api to provide working software from devs that dont care about portability | 22:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Commercial can equal more focus on one goal, again i still don't see an issue in some commercial. | 22:24 |
| brocashelm | i would replace "commercial" with "corporate" | 22:25 |
| brocashelm | a company is a good thing. a corporation (usually) isn't | 22:25 |
| r3boot | sixwheeledbeast: there used to be a time, where you did not 'own' a copy of an OS. You 'leased' cpu/memory/io time on a machine | 22:25 |
| r3boot | then came unix (which was closed as well, but given to universities), which eventually was set free, which led (among other thigs) to the huge size of the internet as we currently know it | 22:26 |
| r3boot | so there is something to be said about keeping software 'free' from corporate interest | 22:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It may have not got off the ground in the first place without corporate money | 22:28 |
| r3boot | a commercially driven linux distro inevitably will suffer from corporate interest, that's just a fact of life. Luckily for us, it's mostly in the form of (mandatory) licensing if you use them commercially (rh/suse) and/or support contracts (rh/suse/canonical) | 22:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | for example | 22:28 |
| r3boot | Sure, I can see that :) both RH and SuSE started with corporate backing tho ;) | 22:29 |
| r3boot | (just like canonical) | 22:29 |
| r3boot | eventhough the derivatives they are based on are free | 22:30 |
| r3boot | (err, the distros they are derivatives from) | 22:30 |
| r3boot | Sorry, I am misreading you; Sure you can get a distro off te ground w/o any corporate backing. Checkout how Linus got linux 0.1 released to get an idea how that works ;) (just upload it to ftp) | 22:31 |
| r3boot | I think that, if you disregard any salaries for devs + just look at the bare minimum needed to get a foundation (or so) + hosting, investing some 1k a year will get you up to some 500~1000 users or so | 22:33 |
| r3boot | (now I dont know about the financials of devuan, but I can imagine its a bit/lot more given the scale of their infra) | 22:34 |
| r3boot | but purely, fundamentally, all it takes is some hosting space, a domainname, time and effort, since all the parts you need are free to download | 22:35 |
| r3boot | And even if you grow beyond the 1k user size, find some friendly neighborhood ISP that's willing to sponsor a machine | 22:36 |
| r3boot | have a chat with mirror maintainers, etcetc | 22:36 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Still people within a Foundation can have differing opinions and cause fragmentation reducing work power. Corporate will more likely not. I see pros and cons in all methods. For many things I don't believe anyone has the right answer, very often it's a compromise. | 22:42 |
| brocashelm | nice discussion for sure :) | 22:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | This is how is should be tho, a discussion. Flames and rage just leave people spinning in the mud and covering everyone. | 22:47 |
| _stephen_ | so, apulse uses dsnoop/dmix, but dsnoop/dmix aren't available on their own in devuan? | 22:50 |
| gnarface | _stephen_: they are, but they're internal alsa components, not executables | 22:50 |
| gnarface | _stephen_: you have to either configure for them (dmix should be on by default though) or use the special alsa device name "plug:dmix" or "plug:dsnoop" | 22:51 |
| _stephen_ | So I could hypothetically configure them by editing my .asoundrc? | 22:51 |
| gnarface | yea | 22:51 |
| gnarface | or just by plugging that into the program | 22:51 |
| gnarface | if the program interface allows raw text strings for alsa device names, you can pass configuration there too | 22:51 |
| gnarface | but if you're using the default device (the one named, literally "default") it should have dmix enabled already | 22:52 |
| gnarface | but if, in any program, you attach it to a "hw" alsa device name directly, it will bypass all that and dmix | 22:53 |
| _stephen_ | ah, that would do it. | 22:53 |
| gnarface | the reason this seems to still cause a lot of confusion is that dmix wasn't enabled by default for the "default" alsa device for the first few years. they changed it over a decade ago now, but the stigma still remains in what's considered common knowledge | 22:57 |
| gnarface | unfortunately the pulseaudio crowd seemed to be happy to feed into the misinformation and spread the further mistaken impression that alsa *can't* do this without external software | 22:59 |
| gnarface | but it always could, it just never had a default that works for everyone at once | 22:59 |
| ttkv | does the Devuan effort have a foundation supporting it, or any other kind of 501(c)(3) organization? | 23:10 |
| gnarface | that's a good question | 23:11 |
| gnarface | i think so far it's just got private investors | 23:11 |
| ttkv | 'k, thanks | 23:11 |
| gnarface | i could be wrong, i don't know | 23:11 |
| gnarface | but it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea to set up | 23:11 |
| gnarface | i think it might take a long time to get paperwork for something like that through | 23:13 |
| gnarface | so it's possible the wheels are already in motion in fact | 23:13 |
| Jjp137 | isn't dyne.org involved in some way? | 23:15 |
| gnarface | i think it's owned and operated by someone who is also devuan staff? | 23:16 |
| gnarface | maybe they've just contributed some infrastructure | 23:16 |
| gnarface | yes, they're "involved in some way" | 23:16 |
| Jjp137 | well at the very least, the "Dyne.org foundation" did register the Devuan trademark (according to the bottom of Devuan's home page) | 23:18 |
| gnarface | oh, maybe they're involved more significantly than i'm aware of. maybe they're the foundation that ttkv is looking for. | 23:21 |
| gnarface | i should probably know the answer to this already but i'm not always paying attention when i should be | 23:22 |
| Jjp137 | oh the donations page makes it pretty clear: https://devuan.org/os/donate | 23:24 |
| ttkv | aha! thanks, Jjp137 | 23:25 |
| Jjp137 | np :) | 23:25 |
| * ttkv derps, should have checked that first | 23:25 | |
| golinux | Seek and ye shall find. :) | 23:25 |
| brocashelm | it's nice seeing a lot of positive support for devuan on youtube, btw | 23:26 |
| brocashelm | noticing more systemd videos mentioning devuan as a distro of choice | 23:26 |
| brocashelm | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSbNumR9Z8k | 23:27 |
| brocashelm | by the way, is work on beowulf still underway? projected release date? asking because ascii has some issues i experienced (or i guess i could just switch repos to beowulf and update) | 23:36 |
| brocashelm | for example, if i remove slim, i can no longer mount/unmount drives and some other permissions-related crap. that was very weird, so i put slim back on for the time being | 23:37 |
| gnarface | slim might have taken some elogind/polkit dependency out when it went | 23:38 |
| gnarface | or udisks2 | 23:38 |
| brocashelm | yea, i just want to startx from cli (i use xfce) | 23:38 |
| gnarface | you should in theory be able to add back the necessary packages without also installing slim | 23:39 |
| brocashelm | hmm, will try that and issue update | 23:39 |
| gnarface | work is underway on beowulf, but it's not really ready yet | 23:39 |
| gnarface | if you have actual problems that aren't self-inflicted, try backports first before you do anything desperate | 23:40 |
| gnarface | there's newer kernel, mesa, nvidia-drivers, etc... most the stuff you need for extra-distro commercial software support | 23:40 |
| gnarface | upgrade to testing only as a last resort, or if you're bored and want to help testing testing | 23:40 |
| gnarface | (but either way, i recommend making a backup first) | 23:41 |
| brocashelm | there are just some other issues i'm having. mouse speeds aren't as fast as they should (they're lightning-fast on my main distros currently), eth0 keeps automatically connecting (tried editing the config to disable that, but then i can't connect to the internet from networkmanager), and i get errors if i boot without an ati radeon card if i have a config file for it | 23:41 |
| gnarface | (and check the forums for word from other people who've already tried it) | 23:41 |
| brocashelm | i have devuan on a separate ssd. i'm trying to get a feel for it first before i make the switch | 23:42 |
| gnarface | those all sound like they could be relatively simple misconfigurations | 23:42 |
| gnarface | or even just differences in stock defaults | 23:42 |
| brocashelm | so, testing would be the only package versions newer than ascii at the moment? | 23:42 |
| gnarface | no, as i said there's also ascii-backports, and there's also unstable (ceres) | 23:43 |
| brocashelm | oh, ok | 23:43 |
| gnarface | ascii-backports works just like debian's backports | 23:43 |
| brocashelm | i'll see if a repo switch does the trick | 23:43 |
| brocashelm | i don't have a flipping modern system, but it's still sturdy enough for most modern use | 23:44 |
| gnarface | note: use ascii-backports from devuan repos - don't mix in actual debian repos | 23:44 |
| gnarface | i just want to be clear on that | 23:44 |
| brocashelm | right, i'll consult devuan's repos before anything else | 23:44 |
| brocashelm | i heard about the "frankendebian" thing, so will avoid that as much as possible | 23:44 |
| ttkv | whoops, looking at dyne.org's other sponsored projects, one of them is named "entropical" .. I'd better rename my entropy analysis tool | 23:46 |
| gnarface | heh | 23:46 |
| ttkv | I'm glad to see devuan is well-funded. At its current rate of expenditures, it's got five years of cushion | 23:47 |
| gnarface | they still need a lot of help | 23:47 |
| gnarface | beowoulf needs help, specifically | 23:47 |
| gnarface | man power | 23:48 |
| gnarface | er, uh, person power | 23:48 |
| ttkv | whoops, make that three years .. I can math, really | 23:48 |
| brocashelm | i tried to get into artix and gentoo, but i ran into many problems. void is interesting, but the main developer is MIA, so that's a no. salix os might be another fallback os | 23:49 |
| brocashelm | so devuan would be better if properly configured | 23:49 |
| brocashelm | the LMDE project was interesting, but with the recent one, it's no longer safe from systemd | 23:50 |
| gnarface | brocashelm: well i still have a concern that a lot of your issues might have been things that you deconfigured on your own accidentally when you removed slim. i'm thinking that if you saw the package list from a fresh install where xfce was chosen directly and compared it to yours, you might see what you're missing easily. | 23:52 |
| bloturak | Hello. Can someone tell me if there's some sort of compatibility layer for daemons that require systemd or is my only option writing my own init script? | 23:52 |
| brocashelm | gnarface: i also was trying to replace compiz with compton during that time | 23:53 |
| gnarface | brocashelm: wait, did you try to switch slim with something else? i just remembered slim is not a window manager. | 23:53 |
| brocashelm | yeah, i tried lightdm next | 23:54 |
| brocashelm | and then removed it | 23:54 |
| gnarface | brocashelm: there's a section in the release notes i think you need to read | 23:54 |
| gnarface | brocashelm: read the section under "### Session management and policykit backends" https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt | 23:55 |
| gnarface | there's two backends, and they're in conflict, and when you're adding/removing session managers this way, it's not always smart enough to clean up and remove the conflicting one | 23:55 |
| gnarface | but it's a really simple thing to fix once you know which packages pair with which | 23:56 |
| gnarface | hopefully that will be fixed for beowulf but last i heard it's still a train wreck | 23:56 |
| Jjp137 | well policykit is a train wreck in general :\ | 23:56 |
| systemdlete2 | gnarface: I think I've figured out my problem installing Devuan Jessie on my testbox | 23:57 |
| systemdlete2 | when the installer looks for CDROM devices, it hangs. And I think it is because it finds the KVM switch and goes searching down that path (usb) | 23:57 |
| gnarface | systemdlete2: yea? | 23:57 |
| gnarface | bloturak: i dunno if this is what you want but check out the package "systemd-shim" | 23:58 |
| systemdlete2 | there is no where to "go" really, of course, in the case of a KVM. But, one thing I know is that the KVM has its own, built-in USB keyboard/mouse driver. | 23:58 |
| gnarface | bloturak: (i'd still recommend writing the init script, because it's a good educational experience and you can probably start from an example template and make trivial edits) | 23:58 |
| systemdlete2 | so an lsusb will show two of these, one for the local, actual kb and mouse, and another for the KVM's | 23:59 |
| gnarface | interesting | 23:59 |
| systemdlete2 | I believe that this is confusing the installer, or a program called by it to fetch the usb devices | 23:59 |
| systemdlete2 | unfortunately, I can't confirm this yet. | 23:59 |
| gnarface | yea. this kvm seems a little whack. it's starting to ring a bell about badly behaved winmodem-esque kvms | 23:59 |
| bloturak | gnarface: alright, I'll look into it, I've looked into init scripts and they seem easy enough to write, thanks | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!