armin | all systems up and running. i repeat, all systems up and running. | 00:41 |
---|---|---|
armin | new desktop machine set up with devuan. wow what a smooth sail that was. | 01:03 |
Xenguy | Congrats armin , and enjoy : -) | 01:05 |
Human_G33k | :D | 01:05 |
Human_G33k | a new one with us | 01:05 |
armin | not actually new, but it seems like i frequently get back to devuan, so i'm probably a new "constant user" or something. | 01:06 |
golinux | Yeah, you've been around for a while. | 01:15 |
systemdlete | gnarface: I can confirm one thing at this point: Unplugging/plugging the USB on PC2 restores normal mouse behavior. I am concluding that there is something about the hardware or Devuan USB driver that is not sensing the connection when the KVM returns to that PC (PC2). | 01:42 |
systemdlete | This is why I think I should try another distro on PC2. I have plenty of extra partitions available for this; I did that intentionally. | 01:42 |
systemdlete | I hope it is NOT a problem with the USB driver(s) on Devuan, but a test could help to narrow down possibilities. | 01:43 |
systemdlete | As to hardware, I do have additional computer hardware available, but I haven't used them in a number of years. They used to work, but I have to find space to put one of them. | 01:45 |
systemdlete | I have looked at log files, btw. I don't observe any new log entries when switching back to PC2. I left "tail -0f /var/log/messages running in a terminal window on the desktop while I am switching the KVM to PC1 and back to PC2. | 01:47 |
systemdlete | No new messages show. | 01:47 |
systemdlete | BUT, when I unplug/replug the USB on PC2, lots of messages come up as if the entire USB subsystem is getting a reset or something. | 01:47 |
systemdlete | I can pastebin that activity once I get ethernet access restored to PC2. That's a different, unrelated issue which I know how to do. Just taking some time, but my back is acheing badly the past few days, so I can't sit too long. | 01:48 |
systemdlete | I just now tried the same test, but on PC1. A lot of new messages come up in the messages log when KVM returns to PC1, and this is without touching any hardware, cables, etc. It does this automatically. | 01:51 |
systemdlete | Very similar messages to the kind I get on PC2 when KVM returns control to it. | 01:52 |
systemdlete | So it appears that PC2 is not getting some signal or the like that the USB driver needs to sense the KVM change. | 01:53 |
systemdlete | But I can't tell yet if it is SW or HW (or both). | 01:53 |
armin | After this operation, 249 kB of additional disk space will be used. | 01:57 |
armin | 0% [Connecting to debian.ipacct.com (2a01:9e40::251)] | 01:57 |
armin | seems like ipacct.com has problems with their ipv6 | 01:57 |
armin | anyone an idea why an "apt update" still uses deb.devuan.org, even though i replaced all occurances in /etc/apt/sources.list with "cz.deb.devuan.org"? | 01:59 |
armin | systemdlete: nice nickname btw | 01:59 |
fsmithred | I think the country codes don't really work yet | 02:00 |
systemdlete | armin: :) | 02:01 |
systemdlete | the only trouble is, when I go to other channels to get help, some of them are not very open-minded and feel put off by it. | 02:01 |
systemdlete | I guess I could create another nick and use it outside of the devuan channels (and maybe some other anti-systemd ones) | 02:02 |
armin | http://m2m.pm/shot.png | 02:05 |
armin | look ma, no systemd! | 02:05 |
Xenguy | Ma: armin, did you make your bed this morning young man?! | 02:13 |
armin | KatolaZ: my bed actually looks like a mess right now. | 02:14 |
Xenguy | Chaos is the precursor to Order | 02:14 |
Xenguy | Discuss | 02:14 |
armin | lol | 02:14 |
Xenguy | 8 -D | 02:14 |
MinceR | chaos lives in everything | 02:14 |
armin | so i basically just rendered a shitload of fractals. | 02:14 |
armin | like, 1.4gb of fractals. | 02:15 |
armin | and people on reddit obviously go mad about them. | 02:15 |
armin | o.O | 02:15 |
Xenguy | fried fractals | 02:15 |
MinceR | flied lice | 02:15 |
armin | i love fractals. | 02:15 |
Xenguy | They are <quote>psychedelic</quote> | 02:16 |
Xenguy | Hey, anybody want to fly me over to the conference in Admsterdam | 02:17 |
Xenguy | I'll do it, for free | 02:17 |
Xenguy | MinceR: Was Chaos the father of Kronos? | 02:18 |
Xenguy | I don't remember | 02:18 |
systemdlete | If I boot ascii or even jessie install from USB, the install seems to still look for a CD-ROM. If it also looking for *any* kind of install medium (such as my USB stick) or only CDROM specifically? | 02:19 |
Xenguy | Sorry, this is getting OT, so switching over to #debianfork if anyone is interested | 02:19 |
armin | :D | 02:20 |
armin | damn, do you even have an idea how good it feels to have the whole flat systemd-free? | 02:21 |
Xenguy | armin: I feel it | 02:23 |
Xenguy | It's what I originally signed up for | 02:24 |
Xenguy | Not some 500 pound gorilla that just 'embraces' everything | 02:24 |
armin | armin@unix.porn:~$ man systemd | 02:26 |
armin | Display all 143 possibilities? (y or n) | 02:26 |
armin | yes, that was a <TAB> | 02:26 |
Xenguy | Oh, for real | 02:26 |
Xenguy | ? | 02:26 |
armin | and i believe it's much much more on fedora these days | 02:27 |
Xenguy | fedora is RH, so makes sense | 02:27 |
armin | well it's not like the systemd distribution of tools varies much over different distributions, it's just more recent release i guess | 02:28 |
armin | and these dev guys just go all yolo and bomb everything with hyperactive omnipotent shit | 02:29 |
gnarface | systemdlete: it means the current install medium. the text just hasn't been updated since CDROM was the only option | 02:40 |
gnarface | systemdlete: (remember that the hardware thinks the hybrid-iso images are CDROMs) | 02:41 |
gnarface | (even when written to USB | 02:41 |
gnarface | ) | 02:41 |
gnarface | i don't know wtf is up with the mouse dying issue though. maybe turn legacy USB support off instead? try that? | 02:41 |
gnarface | the thing is, the KVM switch should not be even allowing the hardware to detect the usb disconnecting | 02:42 |
gnarface | so that's legitimately weird | 02:42 |
gnarface | and it suggests to me that something must be happening when the mouse just goes "idle" | 02:42 |
gnarface | the action of the USB physical hotplugging however, that can be re-triggered by a software script somewhere... | 02:43 |
gnarface | i would very much like to know if running the script WITHOUT actually hotplugging the physical USB cable fixes the issue, too | 02:43 |
gnarface | that would at least quite nearly eliminate the possibility of a physical connection issue | 02:44 |
systemdlete | gnarface: I tried the log trace when switching to PC1 also. It does the same thing as PC2. The difference is that PC1 detects the change, logs it, and returns full control to the mouse (and other devices of course). Whereas PC2 does not seem to get a clue that it needs to go through the reset procedure (or whatever it is called amongst the kErnel geeks) | 02:46 |
gnarface | systemdlete: interesting... so you're saying PC1 actually detects a normal kvm switch action? i don't like the implications of that. that's opposite of what i'd consider expected behavior for a KVM switch | 02:47 |
gnarface | just out of curiosity... does this KVM switch happen to come with a "driver disk" for Windows? | 02:47 |
systemdlete | No, no driver disk, gnarface. | 02:48 |
gnarface | i'd expect the working one to be the one that is silent at switch | 02:48 |
gnarface | i'm missing something important here... and it's bugging me because it's ringing a bell in my head... it's just not quite ringing loud enough to remember the details of the one other time i had heard of someone having a problem like this | 02:49 |
systemdlete | "silent" -- you mean no logged activity by kernel? | 02:49 |
gnarface | yea, i wouldn't expect the kernel to even notice the KVM had switched focus to another machine. if it can, that seems like to me the KVM is not doing it's fundamental duty as a KVM switch | 02:49 |
gnarface | but it's an important clue that could lead you to a workaround | 02:50 |
gnarface | or maybe even a permanent fix | 02:50 |
gnarface | i know this is problematic probably, but do you have a non-wireless mouse that you could try as a test? i'm really wondering if it's the mouse itself going to sleep | 02:51 |
systemdlete | I get your meaning. I would like for KVM switch to keep the USB line "hot" while it is off elsewhere with another client device(s) | 02:51 |
gnarface | yea, that's what i thought they were supposed to do | 02:51 |
gnarface | does it have any configurations of it's own? | 02:51 |
systemdlete | If it were the mouse, though, wouldn't I see the same sort of behavior on PC1 also? | 02:51 |
gnarface | the kvm switch i mean, does it have any configuration options? even like... buttons or switches? | 02:52 |
gnarface | you'd think so, but remember PC1 has a different usb hub. it could actually be leaving the mouse in a different power management state (if the mouse has such things) | 02:52 |
gnarface | remember, this is all hypothetical... i'm just shooting in the dark at this point | 02:53 |
gnarface | i'm pretty sure your hardware isn't faulty but it's still not clear to me if there's a bios bug or a kernel bug | 02:54 |
systemdlete | So, you are suggesting that there is a difference in the USB hardware between the MBs of my two PCs. | 02:54 |
gnarface | that's my primary assumption yea | 02:54 |
gnarface | even if they were using the same driver they could behave differently if they were different chips | 02:54 |
gnarface | i mean, it's the only possibility | 02:54 |
gnarface | but that still doesn't narrow it down between firmware or software misbehavior | 02:55 |
gnarface | you said you had spare partitions so another distro doesn't sound like a bad plan as a test | 02:55 |
gnarface | debian uses the same kernel though, so you might want to try something that uses a newer one | 02:55 |
systemdlete | I was referring to DEVUAN Jesse, sorry | 02:56 |
systemdlete | No debian around here. | 02:56 |
gnarface | well what i'm saying is that debian and devuan use the same exact kernels. so try something that uses a different kernel version. | 02:57 |
gnarface | then, if it works, you know it's a driver issue | 02:57 |
gnarface | if you put in debian and it still doesn't work, you've proved nothing we didn't already know | 02:57 |
systemdlete | Well, I am currently using Ascii. That has a different kernel version... or do you mean a completely different kernel? | 02:58 |
gnarface | ascii is still only kernel 4.9 | 02:58 |
gnarface | though, 4.18 is in ascii-backports, it would be worth it to try that too | 02:59 |
gnarface | hell, i'd be curious to see even what OpenBSD or Haiku do with it | 02:59 |
gnarface | but you have to prioritize these tests on your own | 02:59 |
systemdlete | Yeah, OK. Really, thanks for these helpful suggestions. | 03:03 |
systemdlete | I might try OpenBSD or Haiku. | 03:04 |
systemdlete | Now here is something helpful: I just figured out that if shift-shift-2 doesn't wake the mouse, doing shift-shift-2 a second time (without switching to another machine) may restore the mouse. Which means I should not have to do the unplug-plug USB cable dance each time | 03:06 |
systemdlete | Still the same issue, I think, And I will have to keep mucking around to see if this is as reliable as the cable trick | 03:07 |
gnarface | yea, someone in 2005 suggested that if you just bail out of X to a virtual terminal and back, that should reset the mouse too. they were complaining about different hardware though. | 03:07 |
gnarface | i haven't yet seen anything in the form of a fix that involves changing module options, bios options, or kernel versions | 03:07 |
systemdlete | different in what way? Different MB, KVM, mouse? | 03:07 |
gnarface | different everything | 03:08 |
gnarface | different kvm brand (some belkin thing) and different mouse brand | 03:08 |
gnarface | some people just tell him to buy a different one | 03:08 |
gnarface | some people say to buy a different *mouse* | 03:08 |
systemdlete | I am stuck trying to install Jessie on PC2 hardware. I've only installed Jessie in a VM on PC1 and PC2. The PC2 host is Ascii of course. | 03:08 |
gnarface | why jessie? | 03:09 |
systemdlete | Stuck where the install cannot detect my "CDROM" (install media, my USB stick). THis is even though the install was booted off the USB stick!!!!!! | 03:09 |
gnarface | oh | 03:09 |
gnarface | hmmm | 03:09 |
gnarface | just hit enter again, it doesn't find it? | 03:09 |
gnarface | that's weird... | 03:09 |
gnarface | i haven't seen that happen | 03:10 |
systemdlete | Jessie because I thought it was different than Ascii, but maybe that is not true as you just pointed out moments ago | 03:10 |
gnarface | jessie IS different from ascii, but in the wrong direction. it's OLDER, and by a lot | 03:10 |
gnarface | kernel 3.16 i think | 03:10 |
gnarface | though the install disk probably shipped with 3.2 | 03:10 |
gnarface | devuan jessie corresponds to debian jessie | 03:11 |
gnarface | and devuan ascii corresponds to debian stretch | 03:11 |
gnarface | eh, it might still tell you something to try it though. i can't say i'm sure it won't. | 03:12 |
systemdlete | But... the 4.x series is the same as 3.x. Linus decided to bump the major number only because. | 03:13 |
systemdlete | Nothing. | 03:13 |
gnarface | it's different by a lot of years of driver updates too though | 03:13 |
systemdlete | So the question really is, is the 3.2 kernel in Jessie really that different from 4.x? | 03:13 |
systemdlete | s/3.2/3.x/ | 03:13 |
gnarface | maybe not structurally or functionally, but from a hardware support perspective, 4.x has a lot of new stuff | 03:13 |
gnarface | the release date for 4.9 is in 2016 | 03:14 |
gnarface | the release date for 3.2 is in 2012 | 03:14 |
systemdlete | different. Definitely different. | 03:15 |
systemdlete | So Jessie should be different enough than Ascii to make this test worthwhile. | 03:15 |
gnarface | it should | 03:15 |
systemdlete | But, back to my current stumblebum | 03:15 |
systemdlete | wtf can't jessie find my usb stick? Is Debian/Devuan Jessie really that far back in hardware support? | 03:16 |
systemdlete | I wouldn't know. I only came to Devuan as a CentOS 6 refugee with no where else to live. | 03:16 |
gnarface | it doesn't seem like it should be THAT old but i don't know fur sure | 03:16 |
gnarface | *for sure | 03:16 |
systemdlete | I escaped the coming terror of SystemD in CentOS 7, just in a nick of time. | 03:16 |
gnarface | did you do the signature and checksum verifications on the image before you dd'd to the USB key? | 03:17 |
gnarface | we have seen one or two incidents of obscure failure based on images corrupted in transit | 03:17 |
gnarface | hypothetically it might complain it's missing the CDROM if it just fails to unpack the data it finds | 03:18 |
systemdlete | which begs an issue I should have mentioned to you. Unetbootin. | 03:19 |
gnarface | this actually happened to someone else - or something very similar at least. they had a corrupted image that wasn't too corrupted to boot, but it failed during install at some point | 03:19 |
systemdlete | I have heard varying charges about unetbootin. I wonder if this could be related. | 03:20 |
gnarface | unetbootin? nobody uses that anymore since the hybrid-iso images | 03:20 |
gnarface | someone proved to me you could still use it successfully for hybrid-iso images, but i wasn't able to reproduce the test on my own and dd or cp are a lot easier to use | 03:21 |
gnarface | basically unetbootin isn't officially deprecated, but sortof just de-facto deprecated | 03:21 |
gnarface | you shouldn't need it anymore unless you're dealing with very old hardware | 03:22 |
systemdlete | It should be deprecated. And spat upon and widely hated. I mean if you are going to deprecate someone or something, go all the way. | 03:22 |
fsmithred | 3.2 was wheezy. Jessie has 3.16 | 03:23 |
gnarface | presumably it still does it's job when needed. it will probably evaporate with the last of that generation of BIOS | 03:23 |
systemdlete | (what is wrong with the word "obsolescent?" That used to work quite sufficiently. Was there some need for a new term?) | 03:23 |
systemdlete | (deprecate actually means to insult someone or something. It has nothing to do with obsolescence. Then again "devolve" has nothing to do with evolution either, but people seem to feel free to use it that way. I wonder what a "devolved" species might look like?) | 03:24 |
fsmithred | axolotl? | 03:24 |
gnarface | hehe | 03:25 |
systemdlete | what is the key combination for that emoticon? | 03:25 |
gnarface | which? | 03:25 |
systemdlete | I promise not to associate with anything that has been deprecated. I do not care to be associated with them anymore. | 03:26 |
systemdlete | axolotl | 03:26 |
systemdlete | (fsmithred said this.) | 03:26 |
fsmithred | I've had the problem of booting installer from usb and then it can't find the cdrom | 03:26 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i don't think that's an emoticon. i think it's a species of amphibious fish | 03:26 |
fsmithred | I worked around it by making a symlink | 03:26 |
systemdlete | oh, ok. So humans can actually become fish again. | 03:26 |
fsmithred | lol | 03:26 |
systemdlete | If they devolve (as the word is misused) | 03:27 |
gnarface | oh, my bad, technically it's a salamander. but in Mexico they call it "walking fish" | 03:27 |
fsmithred | we start out as fish | 03:27 |
systemdlete | thing is, fsmithred, there is no CDROM at all on the machine. So of course it won't find it. But what if I did have one -- would install try to mount the CDROM and continue from that? | 03:27 |
gnarface | it's not a fish that grew legs, it's a salamander that grew gills | 03:27 |
fsmithred | it became an adult without developing adult charateristics (i.e. still in juvenile stage) | 03:28 |
fsmithred | at least that's the ones at high altitude where there's not much iodine. | 03:29 |
systemdlete | like many of our politicians | 03:29 |
fsmithred | pretty sure that's the story. | 03:29 |
fsmithred | lol | 03:29 |
systemdlete | I demand a wall or I will stop EVERYTHING. | 03:29 |
fsmithred | you don't need a cdrom drive, just a symlink to what looks like a cdrom | 03:30 |
gnarface | systemdlete: you said you're booting a VM with that installer that can't find itself? can you tell the VM that the image is on a CDROM instead of a USB key? | 03:30 |
gnarface | or yea, try the symlink fix | 03:30 |
systemdlete | How were people able to install Devuan Jessie if they made a USB stick not a CDROM? | 03:30 |
fsmithred | usually it works right | 03:30 |
gnarface | i never had that problem so i'm guessing you've got another corner case here | 03:30 |
fsmithred | but I've seen the problem with devuan and debian installer isos | 03:30 |
fsmithred | but yeah, if it's a vm, just use the iso | 03:31 |
systemdlete | There is no VM gnarface. Rememeber, I am trying to install a (HW-install) replacement for Ascii on my PC2. | 03:31 |
gnarface | systemdlete: sorry, i thought you said you were trying to put jessie into a VM as a test first | 03:31 |
systemdlete | no. | 03:31 |
fsmithred | you used dd to prepare the usb? | 03:31 |
systemdlete | No. Worse. Much worse, fsmithred. I used unetbootin | 03:32 |
fsmithred | oh, that might be the problem | 03:32 |
systemdlete | Nice. | 03:32 |
fsmithred | why did you do that? | 03:32 |
fsmithred | is it a multi-boot usb? | 03:33 |
systemdlete | An image writing tool that cannot just do its job without imparting usual software behavior? | 03:33 |
gnarface | i think he just followed outdated advise | 03:33 |
gnarface | advice* | 03:33 |
systemdlete | No. It is a tool I've used many times in the past. Usually, without incident. | 03:33 |
systemdlete | It seems like it is only having issues recently, with USB sticks. | 03:33 |
systemdlete | anyway, I shall delete it from my arsenal of tools | 03:34 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i think the issue is that unetbootin changes the contents of the image in a way that doesn't account for hybrid-iso images correctly by default | 03:34 |
gnarface | the whole point of the hybrid-iso format though was to dodge that task at image writing time though | 03:34 |
systemdlete | is the ISO image I pulled from devuan's website this "hybrid-iso" format? | 03:34 |
gnarface | so it's better to use dd for hybrid-iso images at least, because dd is dumb and won't screw with your image contents | 03:34 |
gnarface | yea, pretty much everyone is using hybrid-iso format installers and live images these days. it just makes it so much more convenient to have the same image that will work from any disk type | 03:35 |
systemdlete | but, gnarface, will it munge with the USB's bootloader? | 03:35 |
gnarface | dd shouldn't change *anything* | 03:35 |
gnarface | unless you do it wrong | 03:35 |
systemdlete | dd CAN write to the boot track. | 03:36 |
gnarface | yes, it's just a dumb block-by-block copy | 03:36 |
systemdlete | or do I avoid that when using dd to create my bootable stick?\ | 03:36 |
fsmithred | yes, you want it to do that so it boots | 03:36 |
gnarface | systemdlete: to be clear, you're planning on overwriting the contents of the USB key, right? | 03:36 |
fsmithred | dd if=/path/to/iso of=/usb-mountpoint | 03:36 |
systemdlete | last time I used dd, it made the stick unbootable. I had to go through many steps to get it to boot again | 03:37 |
fsmithred | /dev/whatever | 03:37 |
systemdlete | yeah, I know. As I said, I've used it before. | 03:37 |
systemdlete | ok | 03:37 |
gnarface | don't specify a block size when writing with dd. that's what usually screws people up. | 03:37 |
fsmithred | not mountpoint - it should not be mounted | 03:37 |
systemdlete | I will make a new stick image... bb in a few... | 03:37 |
gnarface | the hybrid-iso images are self-contained. they have their own boot sector built in | 03:37 |
gnarface | (hence we don't need unetbootin) | 03:38 |
gnarface | it's actually some fancy trick that embeds every type of boot sector into one image somehow | 03:38 |
systemdlete | btw, does the jessie (or ascii) installer have a step where It allows me to pick with partition to install to? Like a custom disk configuration step like installers from the past? | 03:38 |
gnarface | i don't understand the details. it sounds like a nasty hack, frankly. but it works good. | 03:38 |
gnarface | ah | 03:38 |
gnarface | make sure you choose "expert" install and manual partitioning | 03:39 |
systemdlete | I did choose expert graphical install, but saw no partitioning step | 03:39 |
gnarface | hmmm. should have been there | 03:39 |
gnarface | wait, not from the live image right? | 03:39 |
gnarface | from the netinstall image? | 03:39 |
systemdlete | it's a testbox, but I'd prefer not to kill what I already have installed. | 03:39 |
gnarface | i never use the graphical mode, i seem to remember someone complaining that the manual partitioning option was non-obvious in there | 03:40 |
gnarface | just pick expert in the regular mode | 03:40 |
systemdlete | devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso | 03:40 |
systemdlete | and | 03:40 |
gnarface | yep, that's the right one | 03:41 |
systemdlete | devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_NETINST.iso | 03:41 |
gnarface | yea, those both look right... | 03:41 |
systemdlete | those are the ONLY devuan images I have | 03:41 |
gnarface | ok, just had to make sure. some people have complained about the live installer being limited in features | 03:41 |
gnarface | (it is) | 03:41 |
systemdlete | dd if=devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_NETINST.iso of=/dev/sde | 03:42 |
systemdlete | as root, from the PC1 host | 03:42 |
gnarface | that's right. just make sure /dev/sde is right | 03:43 |
gnarface | you really don't want to point this at the wrong drive, obviously | 03:43 |
systemdlete | :) | 03:43 |
gnarface | it'll be REALLY slow | 03:43 |
systemdlete | I have enough alligators to wrestle atm | 03:43 |
gnarface | and it will spit out TWO numbers at the end. make sure they're the SAME | 03:43 |
systemdlete | some advice on the web suggest using a HUGE block size | 03:43 |
gnarface | don't ever do that for writes. | 03:44 |
systemdlete | 'sdone | 03:44 |
gnarface | only specify a huge block size with dd on writes if you're trying to speed up writing a lot of zeros. it can cause problems and corrupt the write silently if you go above some device-specific threshold | 03:44 |
fsmithred | is it related to disk cache size? | 03:45 |
gnarface | some times it's safe to go up to 8MB blocks on write and some stuff can only handle 1MB blocks | 03:45 |
gnarface | fsmithred: maybe, i was never sure. | 03:45 |
fsmithred | I found that bs=65536 was fastest on this computer | 03:46 |
gnarface | i did a lot of testing and found out it doesn't speed up anything even a little over bs=512 and just causes compatibility problems. my tests showed that the only safe time to specify something like bs=8M was on reads | 03:46 |
fsmithred | but often I use 1M | 03:46 |
gnarface | on reads, a large block size WILL safely speed up a lot of media | 03:46 |
gnarface | on writes, yea i did assume it had something to do with glitching out the write-back cache | 03:47 |
systemdlete | no valid release file. May cause issues later on. Ignore? | 03:49 |
systemdlete | somebody forgot somethting? | 03:49 |
systemdlete | *something | 03:49 |
systemdlete | is it safe to continue? (I will anyway, this is only a testbox after all) | 03:51 |
fsmithred | did you select a repo? | 03:51 |
fsmithred | (meaning, which one?) | 03:52 |
systemdlete | no. I was never asked. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | And I still don't see a partitioning step on the list of steps, btw. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | I am using the graphical expert install | 03:52 |
systemdlete | which I got to from a secondary menu in the first screen of the install | 03:52 |
Jjp137 | a lot of the steps on the expert install don't appear until you do some of the initial steps first | 03:53 |
systemdlete | the problem here is that it failed to detect a CDROM (and yes, this is the dd'd stick, as we discussed) | 03:53 |
systemdlete | ok, thanks Jjp137. Just checking | 03:53 |
systemdlete | my stick is blinking actively btw | 03:54 |
systemdlete | even though it is not doing anything atm | 03:54 |
systemdlete | the install is stalled at the point where it wants to find a CDROM | 03:54 |
Jjp137 | yea I think the bulk of the steps appear when more components are loaded...which is the problem you're having right now and I have no ideas about that :\ | 03:54 |
systemdlete | the install will be very disappointed no matter what it does. I have no CDROM on PC2 | 03:54 |
fsmithred | what does df -h show you? | 03:55 |
systemdlete | So should I deprecate this? | 03:55 |
Xenguy | disk space space space | 03:56 |
systemdlete | just /dev and /run | 03:56 |
fsmithred | I think if you want to install jessie, then you should install jessie | 03:56 |
fsmithred | huh? | 03:56 |
systemdlete | 1T of space, Xenguy. But good to check. | 03:56 |
Xenguy | Weeeeeeeee | 03:56 |
Xenguy | That was fsmithred 's idea tho | 03:57 |
fsmithred | how about 'mount'? | 03:57 |
systemdlete | /run /proc /sys /dev /dev/pts and of course rootfs on / | 03:58 |
systemdlete | I think it should be deprecated. It deserves a good insult. | 03:59 |
systemdlete | (being sarcastic here, don't worry) | 03:59 |
Xenguy | Yer mother wears army boots! | 03:59 |
systemdlete | stylish aint she? | 04:00 |
systemdlete | jealous Xenguy? | 04:00 |
Xenguy | It's an olde classic insult, that boys would share together | 04:00 |
systemdlete | Yes. I remember! | 04:00 |
Xenguy | Goes way back | 04:00 |
systemdlete | waaaaay back, indeed | 04:01 |
systemdlete | 70s | 04:01 |
systemdlete | so fsmithred, what do I symlink? | 04:01 |
Xenguy | I never really know when these things got invented, but sounds plausible | 04:01 |
systemdlete | First time I remember was a friend named "Ronny" when I went to HS in south carolina in the 1970s | 04:01 |
systemdlete | that's why I said that. | 04:02 |
furrywolf | I like women who wear boots. :P | 04:02 |
systemdlete | and I think the way he said it was "Yo mama wears army boots," with a deep southern accent, one I never mastered | 04:02 |
Xenguy | huh, yeah, the combat boot never really goes out of style | 04:02 |
fsmithred | isn't the usb mounted somewhere? | 04:02 |
systemdlete | furrywolf: especially if that's all they ever wear, right? :D | 04:02 |
Xenguy | You can leave your hat on | 04:02 |
systemdlete | fsmithred: That should show up in mount output | 04:03 |
systemdlete | I don't see that | 04:03 |
furrywolf | systemdlete: I don't know about "ever"... | 04:04 |
systemdlete | hat and boots. Cute. | 04:04 |
Xenguy | wink wink nudge nudge | 04:04 |
systemdlete | especially if they are in a still shot in the snow... | 04:04 |
systemdlete | back to my install woes, people | 04:05 |
furrywolf | other things acceptable to wear include my aslan jaguar or anything from oneeyeddoe. :P | 04:05 |
Xenguy | purrrrrr, anything jaguar always gets my attention... | 04:06 |
Xenguy | It's so tacky, yet, scrumpios | 04:06 |
Xenguy | scrumptious* | 04:06 |
systemdlete | How has any human being ever been able to install Devuan jessie to hardware? How can I be the only person who can't do this? | 04:06 |
furrywolf | umm, yeah, you clearly have no idea what it is. | 04:06 |
Xenguy | systemdlete: No way, say it ain't so bro | 04:07 |
Xenguy | furrywolf: Well spell it out if you must | 04:07 |
systemdlete | Am I weak? Cursed, perhaps? Or is this punishment for my mis-deeds of the past? | 04:07 |
Xenguy | Impossible | 04:07 |
Xenguy | What are the symptoms? | 04:08 |
furrywolf | it's punishment for being short an 'e'. :) | 04:08 |
Xenguy | Those damn 'e's, most common thingie of that category | 04:08 |
systemdlete | Is my hardware simply incapable of installing anything more sophisticated than some piece of (alleged) operating system from Microsoft? | 04:08 |
systemdlete | the first 'e' is deprecated, OK? | 04:09 |
systemdlete | my nick is devolved | 04:09 |
fsmithred | maybe you can mount the usb and then make a symlink to it | 04:09 |
systemdlete | ok, fsmithred. | 04:09 |
fsmithred | I don't remember exactly what I did. | 04:09 |
fsmithred | or mount the usb to /media/cdrom | 04:10 |
systemdlete | therre is no "lsusb" available, apparently | 04:11 |
fsmithred | fdisk -l? | 04:12 |
systemdlete | but lspci shows the usb devices for my mouse, keyboard, KVM ... but not the stick that started this whole install system! | 04:12 |
systemdlete | there is no fdisk | 04:13 |
systemdlete | no lspci or fdisk | 04:13 |
fsmithred | I was afraid of that | 04:13 |
systemdlete | ls /dev/sd* shows /dev/sda and /dev/sda[1-8] | 04:14 |
systemdlete | That's my hard disk on PC2. | 04:15 |
systemdlete | no sign of /dev/sdb or the like, for the stick | 04:15 |
systemdlete | ls /dev/usb only has hiddev0 | 04:15 |
fsmithred | maybe /dev/cdrom? | 04:15 |
fsmithred | no /dev/sr0 | 04:16 |
systemdlete | no, no /dev/cdrom | 04:16 |
fsmithred | sr0? | 04:16 |
systemdlete | now, /dev/bus/usb (not /dev/usb) does show 7 buses and some have devices (or maybe other hubs) on them | 04:18 |
systemdlete | but not sure which one would be the cdrom or stick, if any of them are | 04:19 |
systemdlete | fsmithred: No /dev/cdrom or /dev/sr0, no) | 04:19 |
fsmithred | how old is the hardware? | 04:21 |
fsmithred | is there a setting in the bios to treat the usb like a floppy? | 04:21 |
systemdlete | not sure. | 04:24 |
systemdlete | the hardware is AM3 era, so that tells a story. Probably 8-10 years old technologically. | 04:25 |
systemdlete | but it still should work | 04:25 |
systemdlete | hey, before I tore the guts out of the case and replaced it, it had a Pentium 5 architecture with like 20 mb of ram | 04:25 |
systemdlete | It was a neat little case I bought that way at Fry's... | 04:26 |
systemdlete | always worked well, though. I used it as a router for a while | 04:26 |
systemdlete | maybe it was 100mb, I don't remember now. | 04:26 |
systemdlete | I have the old mb here... | 04:27 |
systemdlete | the old board had one ISA slot and 3 PCI slots. The new board is a MSI 7641 (760GM-P23), not a bad board at all. I've been using this PC for my testbox with Ascii running on it without a problem. I do recall I had some issues you helped me with when I was installing Ascii though. | 04:28 |
systemdlete | I don't recall now what those were. I don't think they were the same issues. | 04:29 |
fsmithred | why do you want jessie? | 04:29 |
systemdlete | ok. | 04:29 |
fsmithred | not that it's a bad thing. I'm on jessie right now. But it's an old install. | 04:30 |
systemdlete | I'm trying to see if the USB drivers in Jessie might work with my KVM. The Ascii drivers have a problem, apparently, or maybe it is the MB hardware, I just don't know. | 04:30 |
systemdlete | The mouse locks up when I switch to the testbox. I have to wriggle, jiggle, or diggle to make it work again. | 04:31 |
systemdlete | unplug/replug the usb cable to the KVM | 04:31 |
fsmithred | yeah, I probably can't help with that. I had a kvm once, but it had problems. | 04:31 |
systemdlete | shift-shift-2 after returning to the testbox, that sort of thing. | 04:32 |
systemdlete | I've had KVMs in the past. Not many issues I can recall. | 04:32 |
fsmithred | I use vnc now if I have more computers than monitors. | 04:32 |
systemdlete | I thought of using VNC. Then, when I was at Fry's, they had all these bins full of really neat gadgets, and I... I... uh | 04:33 |
fsmithred | lol | 04:34 |
systemdlete | kinda succumbed to the temptation and bought like | 04:34 |
systemdlete | one of everything... | 04:34 |
fsmithred | so now you have to make it all work | 04:34 |
systemdlete | fsmithred! Most of them were only $1 -- how could I NOT do it? | 04:34 |
systemdlete | yes | 04:34 |
fsmithred | wow | 04:34 |
fsmithred | where is this store? | 04:35 |
systemdlete | the KVM was actually on a separate shelf and cost quite a few bucks actually. | 04:35 |
systemdlete | Fry's? | 04:35 |
fsmithred | yeah | 04:35 |
systemdlete | This Fry's used to be an Incredible Universe, which was started and owned by Tandy (the now-defunct Radio Shack) | 04:35 |
gnarface | it's a west coast US thing | 04:35 |
gnarface | i don't think they even have them on east coast | 04:36 |
systemdlete | Gnarface: Fry's is all over the country | 04:36 |
systemdlete | There was one in Alabama | 04:36 |
fsmithred | I thought it was west coast | 04:36 |
systemdlete | Birmingham | 04:36 |
systemdlete | frys.com/ | 04:36 |
systemdlete | locations, maybe? | 04:36 |
systemdlete | They are all over. | 04:36 |
furrywolf | I've only ever been to one once. It had an egyptian thing going on. I didn't buy anything. | 04:36 |
gnarface | hmm. huh | 04:37 |
gnarface | their locations page doesn't list one in alabama | 04:37 |
gnarface | i heard they're not in NY or Georgia either | 04:38 |
systemdlete | furrywolf. How did you manage to get out of there with your credit line unscathed? Teach me. | 04:38 |
furrywolf | they have computers in alabama? I mean, they're so far backwards in every other way.... | 04:38 |
gnarface | i just assumed they were only west coast, but there IS a location listed in Georgia.... | 04:38 |
gnarface | they must be spreading out | 04:38 |
systemdlete | there USED to be one in Birmingham, AL, I thought I looked it up when I lived there about 6 or 7 years ago. | 04:39 |
systemdlete | They really DO have computers in Alabama. You have to peddle though. | 04:39 |
systemdlete | When I walk in the front door at Fry's, its' really weird. I start to feel a pull on my wallet, and there are no pick-pocketers around. | 04:40 |
systemdlete | It's like it wants to come out and play or something. Is this normal? I also have had this experience at Staples and most hardware stores | 04:41 |
systemdlete | Especially ACE | 04:41 |
furrywolf | ... computer stores, hardware stores, adult toy stores,... | 04:41 |
systemdlete | I tried, fsmithred. Honestly, I DID try not to buy anything. | 04:41 |
systemdlete | So I am sorry I must lean on you to help me. But the problem at hand actually is not related to the switch. | 04:42 |
systemdlete | I am just trying to install Jessie, that's all. | 04:42 |
systemdlete | And as far as my need for interdiction, I'll be on Dr. Phil next month... | 04:44 |
watchcat | why? | 04:44 |
systemdlete | why what? | 04:44 |
fsmithred | maybe use the live iso | 04:45 |
systemdlete | fsmithred: OK. | 04:45 |
systemdlete | I'll try that. | 04:45 |
fsmithred | you just want to install to one or two partitions? | 04:45 |
watchcat | why install jessie? ascii rocks. | 04:45 |
systemdlete | Same dd trick, right? | 04:45 |
fsmithred | yes | 04:45 |
systemdlete | ok | 04:45 |
systemdlete | bbs | 04:45 |
systemdlete | just had a thought. Bad USB stick? Fairly new and not used very much, maybe 20 times total. | 04:58 |
systemdlete | but these sticks have been known to flake... | 04:58 |
systemdlete | and, if I do need one, it just so happens that Fry's is having a sale on 128GB drives... | 04:58 |
* systemdlete runs and hides | 04:58 | |
systemdlete | I'm becoming suspicious of this stick. Booting it with the live iso for jessie, and tons and tons of usb errors | 05:12 |
systemdlete | I'll look around for another stick... | 05:12 |
saptech | Hi all | 17:37 |
KatolaZ | hi saptech | 17:38 |
saptech | I have my Brother AIO printer/scanner setup. the printer is working but can't seem to get the scanner working | 17:38 |
saptech | the command, sudo scanimage -L, no scanner identified. sane-find-scanner 'found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9, product=0x016d) at libusb:004:002'. some commands finding it | 17:40 |
saptech | any ideas about getting this working? | 17:40 |
KatolaZ | saptech: can you use the scanner as root? | 17:40 |
saptech | I haven't tried it as root | 17:41 |
saptech | let me try | 17:41 |
saptech | KatolaZ, same message, no scanners found | 17:42 |
saptech | i'm using simple-scan & xsane | 17:43 |
KatolaZ | but you wrote above that sane-find-scanner can find it | 17:43 |
saptech | correct | 17:43 |
saptech | that is odd | 17:43 |
saptech | when I type, brscan-skey -l, I get 'MFC-5440CN : brother2:bus5;dev1 : USB Not registered' | 17:44 |
saptech | typing this command, ls /usr/lib{,64}/sane/* | grep "libsane-brother", I get /usr/lib64/sane/libsane-brother2.so, /usr/lib64/sane/libsane-brother2.so.1, /usr/lib64/sane/libsane-brother2.so.1.0.7 | 17:46 |
saptech | I edited /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane.rules, let me see if it works | 17:58 |
saptech | it didn't work | 18:03 |
saptech | I found this searching on linuxmint forum | 18:12 |
saptech | Command : sudo cp /usr/lib64/sane/libsane-brother* /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/sane | 18:12 |
saptech | the scanner is working now | 18:12 |
KatolaZ | saptech: good to know :) | 19:50 |
saptech | thanks | 19:54 |
pekman | Bomb of the day! http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=13747#p13747 | 20:22 |
KatolaZ | http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2607 | 20:39 |
KatolaZ | First Devuan Conference -- Amsterdam, 5th-7th April 2019 | 20:39 |
golinux | pekman: We've been chewing on that for days over at FDN. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=139950 | 20:54 |
Xenguy | Huh, interesting news about the Debian systemd maintainer | 23:17 |
gnarface | i think it's possible the importance of this is being inflated artificially but it is interesting... | 23:49 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!