libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2018-12-16

arminhmmmmmmmmm05:54
arminjust noticed that #devuan-social doesn't exist05:54
arminis it cool to post links to heavy metal videos on youtube in here?05:54
furrywolf#debianfork is the social channel05:55
debdogarmin: there's #debianfork for OT stuff05:55
armindebdog: a bit un-intuitive, but hey05:55
furrywolfyou're welcome to post heavy metal videos there, and I'll probably click many of them.  :)05:55
debdogI don't think whether it's intuitive or not is not the issue here. but it ain't mentioned in the topic06:01
debdoghmm, prolly one negation too much there06:02
DocScrutinizer05[support] TOPICLEN=39006:11
debdogoh06:12
DocScrutinizer05!ot06:19
infobotOT: please take any off-topic chat to #debianfork06:19
DocScrutinizer05quite funny when people ping you in /query but miss your reply thanks to their /ignore list X-P06:20
DocScrutinizer05debdog: you might revoke your request since some folks here neither notice my posts nor those of infobot, thus still might ponder how to "fix this issue"06:27
rseveroHi, I have devuan 2.0 installed in an encrypited LVM (LVM + LUKS) default installation. I'm having trouble on shutdown as, at the last shutdown step, just before "System will be halted now"message (which is show exactly before actually turning off the computer, the shutdown process halts with several messages "sda5_crypt still busy" and this keeps on going for something like 30 seconds. How can I fix this delay?12:39
rseveroOr at least, how can I further troubleshoot it?12:40
gnarfacecheck the forum12:44
gnarfacei don't know the answer but i think it's a known issue...12:44
rseverognarface: Ok. Thanks.12:46
rseverognarface: My shutdown delay problem with LVM + LUKS was fixed manually applying the patch available at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=792552#513:19
rseveroShould I report this anywhere else? Open a bug at devuan?13:19
gnarfaceif there's not one already open, it can't hurt13:22
gnarfacetypically upstream patches their version and devuan inherits it though, i think13:23
rseveroIn fact I found one but apparently no action has been taken on it: https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=23713:39
rseveroBTW, I can't find how to comment on a Devuan bug with the browser, only with an email. Is it the only way?13:39
furrymcgeeyes, I think it is the way to go, thank you for the bug report13:44
rseveroAnother annoying issue: with Devuan the HDMI secondary monitor connection doesn't work on my Asus laptop. With a live Ubuntu pen drive it works just fine. When I connect the HDMI with Devuan, I see no second monitor in the "Display" settings. This laptop has a dual Intel/NVidia video board. Suggestions?13:53
furrymcgeeWhats your hardware kernel and drivers? Does it work with debian?14:01
gnarfacersevero: ubuntu includes the nvidia proprietary drivers and bumblebee by default, i guess.14:15
gnarfacedevuan does not14:15
gnarfacebut they're in the repos14:15
gnarfaceyou should be able to install, it's worked for many people.  it's kinda hit and miss though, that hardware is a p.i.t.a.14:16
gnarfacemany people have got it working, but this is another thing i can't help with specifically14:17
gnarfaceyou might be able to get help with the nouveau driver it's using by default in #nouveau though14:18
rseverofurrymcgee: Here is lspci output: https://paste.ee/p/DvcKn14:18
rseverofurrymcgee: I will prepare a live Debian pendrive to answer that.14:19
gnarfacealso something called DRI_PRIME with nouveau might be a better experience than bumblebee in some cases, worth looking into14:19
gnarfaceit depends a lot on the hardware14:19
rseverognarface: ubuntu incluides nvidia`s proprietary drives but they where not used. And in Devuan I already tried nvidia proprietary drivers. With them I couldn't even get X up.14:20
gnarfaceyikes14:20
rseverognarface: I will take a look at DRI_PRIME. Thanks!14:20
gnarfacethere are newer versions of the kernel and the drivers in ascii-backports, which might help some of your issues (ubuntu uses newer versions of everything by default too - normally this causes more bugs but i understand how that might not seem this way right now to you)14:22
rseverognarface: I already updated my kernel:Linux version 4.18.0-3-amd64 (debian-kernel@lists.debian.org) (gcc version 7.3.0 (Debian 7.3.0-30)) #1 SMP Debian 4.18.20-2 (2018-11-23)14:25
debdogrsevero: this might be a good start: http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/390.42/README/index.html  esp. chapter 1714:25
rseveroIt didn't help.14:25
rseverodebdog: Will look at it. Thanks!14:25
rseverognarface: I really want to get rid of systemd ;) Just have to find out how to fix this issue.14:27
buZz'devuan 2.0' is ascii, right?14:37
buZzmaybe just grabbing cryptsetup from backports would solve it14:37
rseverobuZz: I will try it and report back.14:40
rseverobuZz: It didn't work. With the ceres cryptsetup package I got the old shutdown delay back. And apparently things changed a lot as the is no /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks.functions file to be patched.14:57
buZznot ceres, the backports one15:00
buZz(is what i recommended)15:00
buZzbut ok15:00
gnarfaceit would be a mistake, yea to use a mix of ceres and ascii packages15:00
rseverobuZz: Sorry, will try.15:08
rseverognarface: Ok. Right now I have a ceres kernel in a ascii system. Bad idea also?15:09
gnarfaceyes, you should actually use the backports repo15:10
gnarfaceand the devuan one, not the debian one15:10
buZzrsevero: the name of ascii's backports repo is 'ascii-backports'15:11
buZzlike ; deb http://nl.deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free contrib15:11
rseverognarface: Ok.15:11
rseverobuZz: Great.15:11
rseverobuZz: Even with this new source, I still get ascii packages and not ascii-backports ones. Yes, I've run "apt update" after changing sources. What am I missing?15:14
gnarface"-t ascii-backports" on the command-line15:14
buZz-changing- ? no you -add- it to sources.list15:14
buZzapt search -t ascii-backports cryptsetup15:15
rseverobuZz: Sorry for the bad description. I added this new source.15:15
buZzalright15:15
rseveroRunning kernel 4.18 and cryptsetup from ascii-backports. The shutdown delay came back. But now I have a /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks.functions file to patch ;)15:27
KatolaZrsevero: this is a known bug IIRC15:28
KatolaZdo you have an encrypted / ?15:28
rseveroKatolaZ: Yes I know: https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=237 Unfortunatelly the patch available in this bug reported hasn't got into available packages yet.15:29
rseveroKatolaZ: Yes, everything encrypted except /boot15:30
KatolaZrsevero: the "bug" is that the shutdown script waits for all the crypted volumes to be unmounted15:30
KatolaZbut / cannot be unmouted yet at that point15:30
rseveroKatolaZ: With the patch available at the bug report, there is no hanging at the end of the shutdown process.15:31
KatolaZyeah I know15:31
rseveroKatolaZ: Do you believe there is any unwanted side effect with the proposed patch? It seems to work just fine for me.15:32
KatolaZrsevero: it should be just fine15:35
rseveroKatolaZ: So I believe it should be included in the available cryptsetup packages. It's really annoying to wait 30 extra seconds for something that can happen immediately ;)15:36
KatolaZrsevero: that would mean forking cryptsetup...15:41
KatolaZbut yeah, we should probably do that15:41
rseveroKatolaZ: Does the /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks.functions file come from upstream?15:44
KatolaZrsevero: yes15:44
KatolaZAFAIK15:45
KatolaZyes, it does15:45
KatolaZit would be probably better to push the patch upstream, I guess15:45
rseveroKatolaZ: I've just downloaded cryptsetup sources from https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/tree/master and I can't find the cryptdisks.functions in it.15:49
rseveroIs there a way to check on devuan's package where the file cames from?15:49
buZzdpkg -L cryptsetup , iirc15:50
rseverobuZz: This command lists the files from the cryptsetup package. What I would like to knwo is: where did a specific file that is in the package cama from: from the upstream sources? From the packager himself?15:55
rseveroWhat I would like to know is: where did a specific file that is in the package came from: from the upstream sources? From the packager himself?15:56
buZzpackager, most probably15:58
furrymcgeeyou can download the debian package sources with apt source cryptsetup and compare with upstream15:59
furrymcgeeit needs a deb-src in sources.list15:59
rseverofurrymcgee: Thanks!16:04
KatolaZrsevero: no need16:04
KatolaZlook for the "Filename:" header16:04
KatolaZapt-cache show PACKAGE | grep "^Filename: " | cut -d "/" -f 216:05
KatolaZrsevero: ^^^16:05
rseveroKatolaZ: The package maintainer is the Debian Cryptsetup Team. I will try furrymcgee suggestion to discover where does the cryptdisks.functions file comes from.16:08
KatolaZrsevero: the package comes from Debian16:08
KatolaZI told you already16:08
KatolaZwe haven't forked it16:09
KatolaZ:)16:09
KatolaZand the Filename: header has a trace of that16:09
KatolaZif you are to file a bug, you should probably file it against the "cryptsetup" package16:09
KatolaZat bugs.debian.org16:10
rseveroKatolaZ: I know, but some files came from upstream (cryptsetup) and others might come from the Debian maintainers. I have to know that so I open the bug on the right place: Debian OR cryptsetup.16:10
KatolaZrsevero: just open it on bugs.debian.org16:10
KatolaZif it's an upstream bug, it will be forwarded upstream16:10
rseveroOk.16:10
KatolaZthe maintainers would know16:11
KatolaZ(if you are willing to help them, even better I guess)16:11
KatolaZ(meaning, helping with pointing to the problem)16:11
rseveroKatolaZ: I have just read much of https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=79255216:17
rseveroKatolaZ: I believe cryptsetup must be forked by Devuan as it seems that the solution is systmed X SysV specific.16:19
KatolaZrsevero: it is not clear from the bug you posted though...16:24
KatolaZit refers to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=79194416:25
KatolaZbut it is not clear how that is relevant16:26
KatolaZ(it's a long thread...)16:26
rseveroKatolaZ: Do you believe that there is a common solution, not systemd or SysV specific, for this issue? One that would make sense for Debian to apply? Both solutions that work for me (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=792552#5 and https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=237) make changes in a file that, AFAIU, is relevant only for SysV.16:28
KatolaZrsevero: if it's relevant for sysv and does not break anything in systemd, the Debian maintainers might be able to accept the patch?16:49
KatolaZ(I am just guessing)16:49
KatolaZI don't know hows LUKS is managed by systemd16:49
rseveroKatolaZ: I'm kind of lost here. How to I report a bug that I see on Devuan when doing a shutdown managed by SysV scripts to Debian that uses systemd? How do I give any details about this issue without installing Debian with LVM + LUKS?16:57
rseveroHow do I give and relevant details (from Debian maintainers perspective) about this issue?16:59
KatolaZrsevero: Debian ships systemd, but all packagers still have the obligation (by policy) to ship simple init scripts for their services17:02
KatolaZif the code is only used by the sysvinit script, any Debian user with sysvinit woudl experience the same peoblem right?17:02
rseveroKatolaZ: So I should open a bug at Debian saying something like: "When shuting down Devuan I have this issue...". Is that it?17:03
rseveroKatolaZ: Are there Debian users that use sysinit? I thought that this wasn't an option with Debian anymore.17:03
KatolaZrsevero: ?17:04
KatolaZsure there are17:04
KatolaZit's a bit cumbersome to use17:04
KatolaZyou can't choose it at install time17:04
KatolaZand most of the stuff which depends on systemd does not work17:04
muepit has been an option all the timem just not a default setup17:04
KatolaZbut *in principle* you can still use sysvinit in Debian17:04
KatolaZ(at least so far)17:05
muepbasically the reverse of the situation in wheezy, where install-time you would always get sysvinit but could install systemd from the repos if that's preferred17:05
KatolaZwell, with the addition that now a lot more stuff depends on systemd17:06
KatolaZ(see session management)17:06
KatolaZand simply does not work if you don't have systemd17:06
KatolaZor if you don't have a replacement17:06
KatolaZ(like elogind)17:06
rseveroKatolaZ: If you say so. I will open a bug in Debian talking about my issue with Devuan. I really don't think Debian maintainers will consider it something for them to solve but let's see.17:06
KatolaZrsevero: it's worth trying I guess17:07
KatolaZmaybe also post the patch17:07
KatolaZand/or reference the Devuan bug17:07
KatolaZif they don't want/cannot act on it17:07
KatolaZwe could fork the package17:08
muepto get attention of the debian maintainer, it would be way better to reproduce it with actual debian17:09
rseveromuep: I bet so but I'm really not in the mood to install a whole Debian with LVM + LUKS just to report this bug...17:17
rseveroTo Debian17:17
rseveroKatolaZ: Email sent to submit@bugs.devuan.org Let's see...17:22
rseveroOh, dammed. It went to devuan. I thought reportbug would send it to Debian...17:22
KatolaZrsevero: np17:23
KatolaZrsevero: it looks like the script has changed in unstable17:27
ibanjaI am receiving a "WARNING: Failed to connect to lvmetad." on boot, followed by "Volume group 'desktop' not found"...   The problem is it keeps looping this message. a bunch of times before moving on and booting.  I beleive the problem is I don't have a volume named 'desktop'. Where is it getting this from?22:21
ibanjaI just replaced a failing hd, by restoring from fsarchives onto the new LVM partitioned drive.  I renamed the VG (volume group) from "desktop" to "vg_desktop" so there wouldn't be a conflict when I hook up my dying hd to retrieve a few non-backed up files.22:22
ibanjaso it's apparently a remnant from the previous hd, but where is the information stored, so I can correct this?22:23
ibanjathe fstab is correct22:23
ibanjasyslog entry (presumably when boot sequence resumes):  lvmetad[2345]: Failed to accept connection errno 11.22:38
rseveroMaybe someone can help me with this video issue:  with Devuan the HDMI secondary monitor connection doesn't work on my Asus laptop. With a live Ubuntu pen drive it works just fine. When I connect the HDMI with Devuan, I see no second monitor in the "Display" settings. This laptop has a dual Intel/NVidia video board. I have kernek 4.18.0 from backports. Just tested in Debian 9.6.0 live and it doesn't work there also. I have no xorg.conf file at all. Does22:57
rseveroanyboy have a clue why it works just fine with a Live Xubuntu but not in Devuan?22:57
golinuxrsevero: Devuan does not install proprietary video drivers by default.  They should be in non-free23:02
rseverogolinux: Forgot to mention, I already tried the proprietary drivers. No change. And I checked Ubuntu: it works with the open source drivers.23:03
golinuxIs there an xorg.conf in Ubuntu?23:08
azarusIf one can still install Debian without systemd: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd , what's the point of Devuan?23:12
azarus(i tried those instructions, they seem to work OK)23:13
rseverogolinux: No, even in the Live ISO it works fine. Without a xorg.conf file.23:14
rseveroazarus: Those instructions are for Jessie (the old release). AFAIK they don't work anymore with Stretch.23:15
rseveroThe current Debian release.23:16
azarusI believe I tried with stretch23:16
azarusBut that was a while ago, so maybe you're right23:16
rseveroazarus: The point I think is "what you call: it worked". AFAIK, several things that depend on systemd in Stretch will stop working or not work quite well.23:17
azarusI suppose so, yep23:17
azarusIt did feel pretty hacky with systemd remnants all over23:18
rseveroazarus: I think these are the minor issues. The bigger ones are actual features not working like, I think, even graphic login.23:19
molioHey23:20
azarusDon't really need that, so \_(ツ)_/23:20
rsevero:)23:20
molioAnybody here knows a way to get the package "libxfce4panel-1.0"? It's a requirement for building dockbarx, a Xfce plugin.23:21
golinux<azarus> . . . you asked:   If one can still install Debian without systemd: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd , what's the point of Devuan?23:36
azarusyep23:36
golinuxLet me answer.  Because there are applications that will not work if systemd is not installed23:36
azarusI guess to to compile flags and the such23:37
golinuxSo byt not using systemd your freedom is denied.23:37
azarusI actually don't use systemd on a daily basis, nor do I use linux on a daily basis23:37
golinuxYes.  And that's what Devuan does so that everything works without systemd23:37
azarusThere are plenty of other systemd-free distros that I have tried and run for a while23:38
azarusGentoo and Alpine Linux being the primary ones23:38
golinuxThen maybe you shouldn;t be offering advice on the Devuan help channel.23:38
azarus... me, offering advice? When?23:38
golinuxIf one can still install Debian without systemd: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd , what's the point of Devuan?23:39
azarusI see that as a question, and not advice.23:39
golinuxThat indicates thet debian w/o systemd is equal to devuan and that is not true.23:40
azarusIt was a legitimate question, since the last time I tried, it had worked. I never told anyone to do as I did.23:40
golinuxIt is built on the lie that those two are equal so spreading wrong information about devuan23:40
azarusA "lie"? I simply asked a question.23:41
golinuxThat depends on your definition of "work".  The noose is tightening with each new release.23:41
azarusYou are interpreting my legitimate question as 100 other things.23:41
golinuxDebian was even going to drop support for sysvinit.23:41
azarusYep. It felt pretty hacky.23:42
golinuxYour question was based on a false premise.23:42
azarus(to use sysvinit on modern debian923:42
azarusdebian)23:42
azarus*23:42
golinuxBecause you don't know much about devuan, it seems23:42
azarusCorrect! That's why I asked.23:42
azarusIs that so wrong?23:43
golinuxI read that as you were encouraging rsevero to just use debian.23:44
golinuxto solve his problem.23:44
azarusWell then you interpreted my question as not a question.23:44
golinuxI often pose suggestions as a question23:45
azarusI joined at 23:12 CET, the first thing I read rsevero say was "golinux: No, even in the Live ISO it works fine. Without a xorg.conf file."23:45
azarusI did not know, nor do I now know of rsevero's issue.23:45
golinuxOK.23:46
golinuxWonder if he's still here . . .23:46
golinuxrsevero: ^^^23:46
molioNevermind, got it.23:59

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