| icebreaker | hey guys, i am trying to compile a linux-kernel but i dont have the make-kpkg program and i cant find it in repo, where can i get it? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | icebreaker: it's in the package called "kernel-package" | 00:09 |
| icebreaker | i have checked that but problem is there is no package called kernel-package | 00:10 |
| gnarface | hmmmmm.... in ascii? are you sure your sources.list is correct? | 00:12 |
| gnarface | oh hmmm | 00:13 |
| gnarface | i'm not seeing it in ascii right now either. i wonder what's up with that... | 00:13 |
| NewGnuGuy | Is it a virtual package? | 00:13 |
| gnarface | i don't think so | 00:14 |
| icebreaker | ah now i can see it | 00:14 |
| gnarface | it's back? | 00:14 |
| icebreaker | something was not correct with sources | 00:14 |
| icebreaker | thx | 00:14 |
| gnarface | hmmm. glad it works for you, but it's still missing in ascii for me | 00:16 |
| gnarface | that's troubling | 00:16 |
| gnarface | something must be going on with the mirrors... | 00:16 |
| gnarface | maybe it just got removed and then replaced and it's taking some time to propagate | 00:17 |
| icebreaker | can i somehow install the package without ~900mb latex dependency? | 00:18 |
| gnarface | i don't know, but i think that's needed to build the kernel documentation | 00:19 |
| gnarface | or something like that | 00:20 |
| icebreaker | great taht will take hours with my internet connection :D | 00:20 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:20 |
| gnarface | icebreaker: did you try adding the "--no-install-recommends" command-line option to apt-get? | 00:21 |
| gnarface | if that doesn't work i've got nothing | 00:21 |
| icebreaker | sweet ! thx | 00:21 |
| icebreaker | only 17 mb now | 00:21 |
| gnarface | (even if that works you may still need latex to actually build the kernel package) | 00:21 |
| icebreaker | that saved me like 3 hours, thanks | 00:22 |
| gnarface | np | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm looking for some "filesystem" - lets call it fuse-exec-fs - that provides the normal filesystem function calls ( man 2 open|less +'/^SEE ALSO' ) aka API under its MOUNTpoint, but actually consists of dynamically generated virtual char-device files, so for any open() && read() - like `cat /MOUNT/<filename> - returns the stdout of a executable like $(MyFileGenerator 'MOUNT' '<filename>') - you ever heard of some implementation of such | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a thing? | 05:09 |
| gnarface | DocScrutinizer05: maybe i don't understand what you're asking but doesn't the kernel do that already with /dev/loop[N]? | 05:29 |
| gnarface | normally only udisks2 needs to touch them | 05:30 |
| gnarface | but if you're not running udisks2 i think they're the only way individual partitions are exposed as devices | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: an existing example that somewhat does what I'm looking for is the (name?) fuse-mp3-fs that creates a dir with virtual *,mp3 files that get dynamically recoded from *.flac, *.wav and whatnot else, when user opens any such file for reading | 05:31 |
| gnarface | that sounds like something i'd do with a cronned bash script, so you've lost me | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly that fuse-mp3-fs isn't generic enough to configure it for the uses I intend it for | 05:32 |
| gnarface | what would be the use, exactly? | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: huh? *virtual* files | 05:33 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 05:33 |
| gnarface | like /sys and /proc and /dev... | 05:33 |
| gnarface | i'm confused | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they never really exist on HDD and thus never eat space. Also never are out of date | 05:33 |
| gnarface | i'm torn between whether you're trying to do something in /mnt that belongs in /dev or trying to do something in /dev that belongs in userspace | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I smell a massive misconception on your side | 05:34 |
| gnarface | yes, probably something i'm misunderstanding about your goal | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the name FUSE alone already gives away "USER SPACE" | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you could rethink the mp3 example | 05:35 |
| gnarface | yea, i get THAT, but that's not quite what i meant when i said userspace | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's an *existing* implementation | 05:35 |
| gnarface | yes, it's the very definition of something that should be done in the kernel being done in userspace instead | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no kernel involved | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except FUSE kernel stub | 05:36 |
| gnarface | but how is that functionally different than if you for example just put the files in some tmpfs mount and ran a cron job to transcode them? | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you ever heard of virtual files systems? (not to be confused with kernel's concept of VFS) | 05:37 |
| gnarface | well isn't that what /dev, /proc, and /sys *are* in fact? | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would it be not different? | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, dev, proc, and sys are virtual filesystems | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ,p3 is another | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mp3 | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfs yet another | 05:38 |
| gnarface | i see | 05:39 |
| gnarface | well i'm not sure what exists that already does this like you want, but i maintain that you can get close enough with some clever scripting | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://khenriks.github.io/mp3fs/ | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | scripting is exactly what I want to do by leveraging this fuse-exec-fs | 05:40 |
| gnarface | it does seem like it would not be a difficult thing for someone experienced in making kernel modules to make a module that exposed as a /dev/ style device some code that just transcodes everything you copy in and stores it in a tmpfs mount | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *could* get away with a megaton of inotify voodoo mess | 05:41 |
| gnarface | hmmm. that was the other thing i was thinking ... if you can hook into dnotify/inotify, you wouldn't even need the cron job | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this stuff shal not get stored! | 05:42 |
| gnarface | streamed dynamically? | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 05:42 |
| gnarface | well, not much difference implementation-wise | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that is what mp3fs does, just in userland via fuse | 05:43 |
| gnarface | you're gonna have some serious load scaling issues if you don't at least cache the stuff... | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I wand arbitrary commands in place of transcode | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | want | 05:43 |
| gnarface | i would too but that might be insane | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you looked at that git link? | 05:44 |
| gnarface | no i mean the "arbitrary commands" part | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *have* this /well I had until it broke during a distro upgrade) | 05:44 |
| gnarface | the ability to swap bash scripts into the pipeline of a ... filesystem.. | 05:44 |
| gnarface | just out of curiosity | 05:45 |
| gnarface | if you're streaming directly anyway | 05:45 |
| gnarface | why not just pipe to stdout? | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who says I want streaming? | 05:45 |
| gnarface | well it was a logical deduction between there and /dev/null | 05:45 |
| gnarface | i couldn't figure out what else you'd be doing with it | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | U want (arbitrary poor example) ~/A/* and ~/B/* real dirs, and a virtual ~/diff_A_B(* that does what the name implies | 05:46 |
| gnarface | ooooh | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *I* | 05:47 |
| gnarface | i see, interesting | 05:47 |
| gnarface | is there such a thing as a fifo directory? | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe I indeed might get away with inorify-watch | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's the problem | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | inotify will prolly fail when I try to open a nonexistent file | 05:49 |
| gnarface | wait a minute | 05:50 |
| gnarface | maybe this is a solved problem | 05:50 |
| gnarface | is this something that could be done with unionfs? | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is solved for *.mp3 virtual files ;-) | 05:50 |
| gnarface | i wonder if unionfs could be altered for this | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, a unionfs also would need existing files | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | have a look at https://khenriks.github.io/mp3fs/ - it's cute | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah wait... I need file stibs anyway, for `ls` etc | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so creating all thise as pipes would solve the problem in a inotify-tabgible manner | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: https://pastebin.com/vWj20FZ3 | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, sure it has its very own specific set of CPU load issues | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g you don't want to run `grep -R FOOBAR ~/mp3cnv/` | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a plain vanilla rsync is also not advisable | 06:08 |
| ]BFG[ | how many devs does this project have? | 06:11 |
| ]BFG[ | did u manage to pull more ppl from the original debian? | 06:11 |
| gnarface | ]BFG[: https://devuan.org/os/team/ | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think "pull HR from original debian" is not even the right category to think | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | devuan is a meta-distro that bases massively om debian. In zhat demse it's quize a derivative of debian rather than a competitor - including devel participation | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | devuan is a meta-distro that bases massively on debian. In that semse it's quite a derivative of debian rather than a competitor - including devel participation | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not a single dev had to stop contrubuting to debian because they fll in love with devuan. Au contraire, some of devuan's devels felt devuan was an opportunity for them to continue contributing to *debian* instead of looking for some freebsd or whatever | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ]BFG[: ^^^ | 06:20 |
| gnarface | sure, while in the mean time some others are actively chucking shit overboard that we're still using | 06:20 |
| gnarface | debian doesn't seem to be of one mind about it's stance on us | 06:21 |
| gnarface | (and i say "us" loosely as a user of devuan and not actually an official member of the team) | 06:21 |
| gnarface | but the point's still valid | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apropos https://devuan.org/os/team/ - golinux how about a col "preferred gender" in the table of team members? | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those who don't want to give any hint are free toleave that field empty | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I would allow arbitrary text in this col - for sure not a braindead linited choice like | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "F | M" | 06:28 |
| gnarface | what possible good reason could you have for encouraging increasing the social attack surface? | 06:29 |
| gnarface | that just seems like a pointlessly divisive suggestion | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 06:29 |
| Criggie | gnarface: good point. | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would leaving this field empty "increase the social attack surface" - if it feels like not providing info there about its preferred comjugations | 06:31 |
| guru | why on earth would anyone care about the gender of the developers | 06:32 |
| Leander | in which case, use a neutral one | 06:32 |
| Leander | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they <- this way, for instance | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? I *want* people to refer to me as "him". not "they" or "it" or "s/he" | 06:34 |
| gnarface | tough | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't like that to be a topic for you, ignore that text field | 06:35 |
| Criggie | "they" as opposed to "we" | 06:35 |
| gnarface | by even having the field then you inherently expose people who don't want to admit their gender. the damned distro shouldn't be about gender identity. not everything has to be about gender identities. | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both for yourself and (if you feel like being polite is a yesterday's thing) for others | 06:36 |
| gnarface | you certainly have to see this | 06:36 |
| gnarface | this isn't the first disingenuous suggestion i've seen you try to float | 06:37 |
| Leander | this information can be on the personal webpage linked on that page | 06:37 |
| gnarface | that too | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that ^ | 06:37 |
| guru | is doc apart of the devuan team? | 06:37 |
| Criggie | gnarface's just pissy that you've made an assumption all developers are human. That migh tnot be the case in the future so we should prepare for it now. | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 06:37 |
| Criggie | *stir* | 06:37 |
| * gnarface snorts | 06:38 | |
| guru | thank god | 06:38 |
| Criggie | god I'm funny when I'm tired. | 06:38 |
| guru | suggestions like this are cancerous | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whom? | 06:38 |
| gnarface | thy/thine/thou | 06:38 |
| guru | they should list DNA types too | 06:38 |
| guru | lets just go crazy | 06:38 |
| Criggie | and handedness. | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not possible in your case, guru | 06:39 |
| guru | gnarface are you left or right handed | 06:39 |
| Criggie | damn righties vs southpaws | 06:39 |
| guru | that needs to be listed too | 06:39 |
| Criggie | BUT BUT BUT Thtats divisive for people with less than or more than two hands? | 06:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 always is baffled when people rage against an *option* as if it was mandatory and has to get signed in blood | 06:40 | |
| Leander | to me, any sort of information other than a name/pseudonym and an email or a personal webpage does not belong there | 06:41 |
| Criggie | what's the point ? | 06:41 |
| gnarface | i'm specifically raging against the type of suggestions DocScrutinizer05 seems to make | 06:41 |
| Criggie | or more clearly, what's the advantage to the devuan project ? | 06:41 |
| Criggie | no advantage, why do it ? | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: take your meds | 06:41 |
| guru | there is none he just wants attention | 06:42 |
| gnarface | it seems like he's always trying to advocate some long plot to discredit the distro and get it embroiled in some petty unrelated religious war | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems like you often drift away in conspiracy plots of the ultimately biazrre kind | 06:43 |
| guru | sorry doc you're a fucking moron using the /ignore command go riddance | 06:43 |
| Leander | then you fail to see the potential long term effects of what you are asking for | 06:43 |
| guru | i don't think i've blocked someone on irc before lol | 06:43 |
| guru | yikes | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | guru: please watch your speech | 06:43 |
| * bozonius realizes this might not be a good time ... | 06:49 | |
| Criggie | bozonius: if its on topic then its always a good time | 06:49 |
| gnarface | yes, please, let's put this back on topic | 06:50 |
| Leander | because publishing such information, even with total freedom about what is put in that field, will inevitably either create a distraction in the form of "look, we're so inclusive, look!" and some people won't like how this is not an init-related issue, or some people will start doing statistics and there will be politics about "we should have more women onboard", again causing distraction | 06:50 |
| * bozonius searches for an 11 foot pole... | 06:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and >>how about ... ?<< is hardly "asking for something". Uttering your concerns in a more polite way would have done better for your case, and for keeping this civil | 06:50 |
| gnarface | lol you're not about to point out a pronoun correction in the documentation, are you bozonius? | 06:50 |
| bozonius | oh goodie. We're doing grammar tonight? | 06:51 |
| gnarface | that would be hillarious | 06:51 |
| Criggie | bozonius: its packaged in xorg-can\'ttouchthis-1.0.deb | 06:51 |
| bozonius | whatever it is, yes, probably | 06:51 |
| Criggie | bozonius: no not doing grammar - she's got Bingo down the church hall toinguiht | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, *you* are clearly going on your weekly flamewar again, based on unfounded assumptions and distortions of what had been said | 06:52 |
| bozonius | Let's say that a guy like... well, say, Bozonius | 06:52 |
| bozonius | would like to jettison all things *dhcp* out of the stratosphere on Devuan. | 06:53 |
| gnarface | DocScrutinizer05: no, "let's suggest the team all list their genders" is flame bait. that's what started the flame war. | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who said that? another distortion | 06:53 |
| bozonius | devuan ascii, that is | 06:53 |
| gnarface | bozonius: it should be safe. just 2 packages i think | 06:53 |
| gnarface | bozonius: oh, if you're using wifi you're probably gonna have to reconfig your router though | 06:54 |
| bozonius | but it insists on replacing them with OTHER dhcp client packages | 06:54 |
| bozonius | no wifi here | 06:54 |
| gnarface | no, remove them on the same line | 06:54 |
| bozonius | ? | 06:54 |
| gnarface | pass them as 2 arguments to the same command | 06:54 |
| gnarface | not two separate commands | 06:54 |
| bozonius | even if they are not installed? | 06:54 |
| gnarface | it'll behave differently | 06:54 |
| gnarface | wait they're not there? | 06:54 |
| gnarface | no | 06:54 |
| gnarface | just the two that are installed | 06:54 |
| gnarface | i think it'll behave differently if you remove them at the same time | 06:55 |
| bozonius | Ok, I want to remove dhcp client packages | 06:55 |
| Criggie | bozonius: you want to uninstall dhcp tools ? Or simply configure a static IP ? | 06:55 |
| gnarface | isc-dhcpcd-something and isc-dhcpcd-somethingelse | 06:55 |
| bozonius | trouble is, when I try to do that, it wants to install substitutes | 06:55 |
| bozonius | yes, yes | 06:55 |
| gnarface | oh hmmm | 06:55 |
| bozonius | hold on for a screen shot... | 06:55 |
| bozonius | you realize I probably screwed something up again... | 06:56 |
| gnarface | bozonius: yea, Criggie brings up a good point, you know you can just disable dhcp too, you don't have to actually uninstall it | 06:56 |
| bozonius | but hold on... | 06:56 |
| bozonius | oh? how | 06:56 |
| bozonius | please | 06:56 |
| gnarface | i don't actually know. i always just uninstall it. | 06:56 |
| Leander | it depends on which tool you use to configure your network | 06:57 |
| Leander | if you edit by hand /etc/network/interfaces, or you use wicd, or networkmanager or something else | 06:57 |
| bozonius | man what a riot. So I included removing the substitute packages (dhcpcd5 and openresolv) and it wants to install "pump" | 07:00 |
| bozonius | so I have to include pump on the cmd line also... | 07:00 |
| bozonius | but I think it might be gone now, so that is a good thing | 07:01 |
| bozonius | was it a good idea to make resolv a dependency of dhcp client packages? | 07:01 |
| bozonius | that seems to be the reason it wants to install a substitute dhcp client | 07:02 |
| gnarface | i'm confused really | 07:02 |
| gnarface | it wasn't that hard for me to remove the default dhcp packages | 07:02 |
| bozonius | please say you are joking | 07:02 |
| bozonius | when I tried to remove the isc-* packages, it wanted to install dhcpcd5 and openresolv | 07:02 |
| gnarface | no, i'm not joking, but maybe something else you have installed that i did not have installed is the actual culprit | 07:03 |
| bozonius | so I had to include all 4 packages as args to apt-get purge | 07:03 |
| * bozonius is probably the "culprit" | 07:03 | |
| bozonius | so then it insisted on installing "pump" | 07:03 |
| bozonius | so I had to purge all 5 packages | 07:04 |
| bozonius | the two isc-*, dhcpcd5 and openresolv, and pump | 07:04 |
| gnarface | so, "Package: isc-dhcp-client" "Provides: dhcp-client" and all those others, including pump i think | 07:04 |
| gnarface | `apt-cache show isc-dhcp-client` to see all the details | 07:05 |
| gnarface | something else on your system must have required "dhcp-client" | 07:05 |
| gnarface | for it to make you go through all of them like that | 07:05 |
| gnarface | but now i'm not sure if you got the package in question | 07:05 |
| gnarface | or just crippled it | 07:05 |
| * bozonius once more, spake too sooneth | 07:05 | |
| bozonius | it is not working just as before. HOld on, I'm looking at it... | 07:06 |
| gnarface | once you actually succeed though you will have to set a proper /etc/network/interfaces and maybe also /etc/resolv.conf file | 07:06 |
| gnarface | with you know, your static ip configurations | 07:06 |
| gnarface | or nothing will work | 07:06 |
| gnarface | you'll have to restart the networking devices maybe too | 07:07 |
| gnarface | or just the whole thing | 07:07 |
| bozonius | actually | 07:07 |
| bozonius | it seems the real problem is that SOMETHING is making dhcp discover requests -- I can see these clearly in wireshark | 07:08 |
| bozonius | so I thought by removing dhcp clients, it would eliminate that | 07:08 |
| bozonius | wrong I see | 07:08 |
| gnarface | ps aux |grep dhc | 07:08 |
| gnarface | or maybe: ps aux |grep dhc -i | 07:09 |
| gnarface | see if you have a dhcp client still running | 07:09 |
| bozonius | nada | 07:09 |
| bozonius | ps -ef | 07:09 |
| bozonius | "still" ??? Never had one | 07:09 |
| gnarface | oh | 07:09 |
| bozonius | first thing I checked in fact | 07:09 |
| gnarface | uh, you might be surprised... | 07:09 |
| gnarface | hmm | 07:10 |
| gnarface | well | 07:10 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure | 07:10 |
| * bozonius is never surprised anymore | 07:10 | |
| gnarface | how many network devices does `ifconfig -a` report? | 07:10 |
| bozonius | just eth0 and lo0 | 07:10 |
| gnarface | what happens if you `ifdown eth0` then `ifup eth0` ? | 07:10 |
| bozonius | btw, it is "ip addr" these days. I don't have ifconfig on ascii | 07:10 |
| bozonius | just eth0 and lo | 07:11 |
| gnarface | oh heh | 07:11 |
| bozonius | which is what I expected | 07:11 |
| gnarface | so you can down then up eth0? | 07:11 |
| bozonius | did I download the bozonius edition by mistake? Maybe that is the problem. Because no one else runs into these... | 07:11 |
| bozonius | maybe devuan.org has an evil twin | 07:12 |
| gnarface | well are you even sure the dhcp requests aren't coming from another machine on the LAN? | 07:12 |
| bozonius | wireshark shows me that the source is 0.0.0.0. and dest is 255.255.255.255 | 07:12 |
| bozonius | but wait | 07:12 |
| gnarface | does it stop if eth0 is down? | 07:13 |
| bozonius | I can check them here on the other side | 07:13 |
| bozonius | good point, I'll try that | 07:13 |
| bozonius | nothing. But then again, the eth0 device was the one seeing these packets, so... | 07:15 |
| gnarface | i'm trying to remember what else a dhcp client could be called | 07:17 |
| gnarface | should still be running | 07:17 |
| gnarface | well assuming it's local | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bozonius: we had the DGCP issue topic not long ago already. That been you or would you want a link to that thread? | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DHCP even | 07:18 |
| bozonius | DHGP? | 07:20 |
| gnarface | is there dhcp built into the kernel now? | 07:21 |
| bozonius | one thing I am certain of is that the "src" of the packets has the same MAC address on both sides of the connection, so I am pretty sure it is originating from the planet ascii | 07:22 |
| bozonius | minor though it may be, yes... | 07:22 |
| bozonius | it doesn't just send a few, it sends tons | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dnsmasq was a buzzword in that other thread iirc | 07:23 |
| gnarface | bozonius: here's the thing, what should have happened is you removed the thing that was requiring a dhcp client instead of the dhcp client, first | 07:23 |
| bozonius | there is no dnsmasq running | 07:23 |
| bozonius | and dnsmasq is something else | 07:23 |
| bozonius | gnarface? | 07:24 |
| gnarface | it should have actually told you, in the text error that pops up, what package | 07:24 |
| gnarface | it looks like an error, so it's common to skim over it | 07:24 |
| bozonius | I wish we were analyzing pronouns instead of this. | 07:24 |
| gnarface | you gotta actually read that | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | initrd was another buzzword | 07:24 |
| gnarface | otherwise it'll just keep trying to fix the dependency | 07:25 |
| gnarface | now that's what's basically happened, is my theory | 07:25 |
| gnarface | hmmm. yea if there was a kernel-level dhcp you might have to regenerate the initrd and reboot to get rid of it | 07:26 |
| gnarface | i don't even know | 07:26 |
| gnarface | bozonius: you did take all the dhcp lines out of /etc/network/interfaces, right? or you're using a gui network tool...? | 07:26 |
| bozonius | see pastebin.com/VWcxH2sB | 07:27 |
| bozonius | (keep in mind this is hard to copy back and forth with the flaky link on ascii | 07:27 |
| bozonius | ) | 07:28 |
| gnarface | did you run `apt-get autoremove`? | 07:28 |
| bozonius | ok I will | 07:28 |
| gnarface | wait | 07:29 |
| gnarface | run it like this: `apt-get --purge autoremove` | 07:29 |
| gnarface | i dunno though... if it's still running after that i'm out of ideas, i dunno what you did | 07:30 |
| bozonius | ok, it removed some python packages and rfkill | 07:30 |
| gnarface | i think my original suspect would have been wicd and/or wicd-daemon | 07:30 |
| gnarface | i would have assumed that if you had run `apt-get purge isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-common wicd` it would have asked you to autoremove the rest | 07:31 |
| bozonius | I'm going to reboot and see if it goes away... | 07:32 |
| gnarface | bozonius: gonna need to see your interfaces file i guess if it doesn't | 07:32 |
| * bozonius invokes the Microsoft Method (tm) | 07:32 | |
| bozonius | but it really IS nice having this test box... | 07:33 |
| gnarface | heh yea | 07:33 |
| bozonius | what I want to do next, once these network issues are sorted out, is set up some kind of rdp or the like so I don't need two keyboards and switching the mouse dongle back and forth... | 07:33 |
| gnarface | the primary two ways are either through vnc or ssh forwarding | 07:35 |
| gnarface | on a LAN, either is viable if you're a little patient | 07:35 |
| bozonius | I was thinking more of something like NoX | 07:36 |
| bozonius | or whatever that's called. I've installe dit in the past | 07:36 |
| gnarface | with vnc it shows you a whole desktop, with ssh forwarding (actually called X11 forwarding over ssh) you can run just one program at a time | 07:37 |
| bozonius | it's like hummingbird | 07:37 |
| bozonius | I've tried vnc a few times also | 07:37 |
| bozonius | ok back up | 07:37 |
| gnarface | with the forwarding approach, you also don't actually have to be running X on the remote machine | 07:37 |
| bozonius | omg | 07:38 |
| bozonius | now all I have is a route for link-local | 07:38 |
| bozonius | it's like it ignored my interfaces file completely | 07:38 |
| gnarface | heh | 07:38 |
| gnarface | show me | 07:39 |
| bozonius | should be fun recovering from this | 07:39 |
| gnarface | don't pastebin | 07:39 |
| gnarface | just /msg it to me | 07:39 |
| bozonius | trouble is, I don't have a way to copy/paste it anywhere | 07:39 |
| gnarface | oh, right | 07:39 |
| bozonius | the link is down | 07:39 |
| gnarface | well, hang on | 07:39 |
| gnarface | i can show you an example | 07:40 |
| gnarface | do you have resolvconf installed or not, as an aside? | 07:41 |
| bozonius | when you say resolvconf, you mean package by that name? No | 07:42 |
| bozonius | what is really odd, though, is that yesterday, all this was working. LOL | 07:42 |
| gnarface | what'd you do?! | 07:43 |
| gnarface | no ideas? | 07:43 |
| gnarface | change to the router maybe? | 07:43 |
| bozonius | well, one thing I did do was change | 07:43 |
| bozonius | yeah the router | 07:43 |
| bozonius | I broke it | 07:44 |
| bozonius | but I fixed it and thought it was back to normal again | 07:44 |
| bozonius | it's a vbox (oh, there's that "word" again) appliance running ipfire. I've had no other issues though | 07:44 |
| bozonius | I've used two of these appliances for about a year now without any major issues | 07:45 |
| bozonius | all I did was add a "blue" interface for the test box, and it was working | 07:45 |
| bozonius | but | 07:45 |
| bozonius | the connection is a bridged ethernet port on the host machine. that ethernet port connects to the testbox | 07:46 |
| gnarface | http://paste.debian.net/1031116/ | 07:46 |
| gnarface | it's supposed to look something like this | 07:46 |
| bozonius | what I did, without realizing it would cause a problem, is to change the underlying config for the port. And then the testbox had problems talking to the Internet. | 07:47 |
| gnarface | the numbers have to be in the ranges your router expects though | 07:47 |
| bozonius | but then I put the underlying config for the ethernet port on the host machine back and the testbox machine started talking to the Internet again. Unfortunately, it stopped working. | 07:47 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 07:48 |
| bozonius | I dont' have network and broadcast, but I do have dns-nameservers and dns-search | 07:49 |
| gnarface | so, without resolvconf installed, those will just be syntax errors | 07:50 |
| bozonius | I could add them I suppose | 07:50 |
| gnarface | they may be the culprits | 07:50 |
| gnarface | but | 07:50 |
| gnarface | if you populate /etc/resolv.conf correctly you don't need the resolvconf package (that seems counter-intuitive, i know) | 07:50 |
| bozonius | I know. resolvconf is just nicey-nice front end mostly | 07:50 |
| gnarface | in that case, you will also need to remove dns-nameservers and dns-search from the interfaces file, or at least comment them out | 07:50 |
| gnarface | also, it's common for dhcp clients to clobber resolv.conf so you should check yours | 07:51 |
| gnarface | those numbers will have to all be right or none of your networking will work | 07:51 |
| gnarface | well, you might be able to get away without network and broadcast but i always specify them anyway to be sure | 07:52 |
| bozonius | holy heck it might be working again... | 07:54 |
| bozonius | sadly, I am still seeing dhcp discover requests though | 07:56 |
| bozonius | acccch! | 07:56 |
| bozonius | not working | 07:56 |
| gnarface | `/sbin/route` | 07:57 |
| gnarface | does "default" match what's in your interfaces file? | 07:57 |
| * bozonius wishes systemd had never been born | 07:57 | |
| bozonius | yeah, same as before | 07:58 |
| gnarface | can you ping something outside by ip? | 07:58 |
| bozonius | what is happening is that it looks like as soon as the router side gets a discover request, it shuts off access to the Internet. | 07:59 |
| gnarface | so you *can't* ping 128.9.128.127, for example? | 07:59 |
| bozonius | I think it may be that the router doesn't trust the packets coming over blue (which is normally a wireless network leg) | 07:59 |
| gnarface | well, your router DOES need to be configured right | 07:59 |
| bozonius | right, unless I restart the connection. And then it only lasts until the router resets it | 07:59 |
| bozonius | yeah, and I followed some advice on the ipfire.org help pages | 08:00 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 08:00 |
| bozonius | maybe I need to go ask them for some help | 08:00 |
| bozonius | it could be that the router, even with the mod I made as they suggested, still doesn't like the requests | 08:00 |
| bozonius | which makes sense because why would it be asking dhcp when it already has a static address? | 08:01 |
| bozonius | shouldn't | 08:01 |
| bozonius | of course the router doesn't know that I suppose | 08:01 |
| gnarface | well i still am concerned about where those requests are coming from, but maybe they can come from the kernel now. | 08:01 |
| bozonius | me too | 08:01 |
| bozonius | those seem to act like some kind of poison pill when the router receives them | 08:02 |
| gnarface | hang on | 08:02 |
| bozonius | water... brb | 08:03 |
| gnarface | try regenerating the initrd.img like this: `update-initramfs -u -k all | 08:03 |
| gnarface | ` | 08:03 |
| gnarface | `update-initramfs -u -k all` i mean, not with the extraneous newline | 08:04 |
| bozonius | ok | 08:05 |
| bozonius | oh | 08:05 |
| gnarface | you'd have to reboot again to see if that helps | 08:06 |
| bozonius | possible missing firmware again... remember from when I did the install? | 08:06 |
| gnarface | yes | 08:06 |
| gnarface | you don't remember the package ? | 08:06 |
| gnarface | you outta put that in a text file | 08:06 |
| bozonius | I'm wondering if this NIC (built-in to board) is set up to automatically request DHCP ... | 08:06 |
| gnarface | that would be weird but not impossible | 08:07 |
| gnarface | this can still be caused by the kernel command-line and/or the initrd.img it appears from my googling though, so try rebooting after you've run update-initramfs | 08:07 |
| gnarface | then if that doesn't work that's one less thing | 08:07 |
| gnarface | actually | 08:07 |
| gnarface | before you do that, what do you have in /proc/cmdline anyway? | 08:07 |
| bozonius | only warnings | 08:07 |
| bozonius | it's done | 08:07 |
| bozonius | reboot? | 08:07 |
| gnarface | sure | 08:08 |
| bozonius | you want /proc/cmdline? | 08:08 |
| gnarface | just make sure 'ip=' and 'dhcp' don't show up anywhere in there | 08:08 |
| gnarface | or anything else that looks like it's trying to set up a network device | 08:08 |
| bozonius | BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-amd64 root=UUID=f3blahblah-blah-blah ro quiet | 08:09 |
| gnarface | nothing | 08:09 |
| gnarface | ok | 08:09 |
| gnarface | yea reboot | 08:09 |
| bozonius | really fast on the reboot. | 08:10 |
| bozonius | sure you guys aren't using that sooper-dooper fast systemd? | 08:10 |
| gnarface | the regenerated initrd.img may very well be much smaller than the stock one | 08:10 |
| gnarface | there's some setting somewhere that toggles whether to include "everything" or just drivers for what you need | 08:11 |
| bozonius | yes, that was an option in the install | 08:11 |
| gnarface | it's usually a large enough difference in size that i've noticed a significant reduction of boot times on slow flash cards | 08:12 |
| gnarface | also, you might be missing a 60s DHCP timeout :-p | 08:12 |
| gnarface | what does wireshark say? | 08:12 |
| bozonius | let me restart that | 08:13 |
| bozonius | it's still chirping those dhcp equests | 08:15 |
| gnarface | damn | 08:15 |
| bozonius | damn | 08:15 |
| bozonius | double damn | 08:15 |
| bozonius | maybe even triple | 08:15 |
| bozonius | this sucks | 08:15 |
| gnarface | well we really might be chasing a shadow here | 08:15 |
| gnarface | those could be coming from elsewhere | 08:15 |
| bozonius | I doubt it | 08:16 |
| bozonius | I can match the MAC addresses of the hardware | 08:16 |
| bozonius | Let's see... I used to use the board that's in the test box in the main machine I use today | 08:17 |
| bozonius | and it connected to a comcast router, which does do the dhcp thing | 08:18 |
| bozonius | so I am wondering if maybe this is the first time I am using it for a fixed (static) ip | 08:18 |
| bozonius | oddly, I was able to install the entire system using the connection to the ipfire virtual appliance | 08:19 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 08:19 |
| bozonius | one explanation for the difference between install and run time is that | 08:19 |
| bozonius | the run time uses a different configuration for the networking | 08:19 |
| bozonius | maybe that means (if true) that those dhcp requests are generated whereas in the install time environment they don't get generated | 08:20 |
| bozonius | idk, I'm really reaching here | 08:20 |
| gnarface | the installer might generate dhcp requests too | 08:21 |
| bozonius | but the connection never failed during the install | 08:21 |
| gnarface | dhcpcanon dhcpcd5 isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-client-ddns pump | 08:21 |
| gnarface | you don't have any of these right? | 08:21 |
| bozonius | it only seems to take a minute or two to fail, and the install goes on logner than that | 08:22 |
| bozonius | dhcpcanon -- not sure | 08:22 |
| gnarface | oh, the installer would generate dhcp requests once and not anymore if you gave it a static ip at that point | 08:22 |
| bozonius | one would think that giving a static ip in the installed environment would do likewise | 08:23 |
| gnarface | or, if it got a valid response, i guess | 08:23 |
| gnarface | yes, it's always been my experience that is all it takes | 08:23 |
| bozonius | right... I am NOT running a dhcp server on the router | 08:23 |
| gnarface | why you're seeing the requests is a mystery to me | 08:24 |
| gnarface | but i guess if you can check the MAC addresses do that | 08:24 |
| bozonius | do you see them on your ascii? | 08:24 |
| bozonius | I mean, if you run wireshark do you see DHCP requests? | 08:24 |
| gnarface | verifying... | 08:25 |
| bozonius | btw, in the ipfire (router) logs, I can see the requests being rejected by the firewall | 08:25 |
| bozonius | "There already exists a minimal DHCP client implementation in the Linux kernel, but it lacks certain features such as configuring the DNS nameservers." | 08:28 |
| bozonius | (that's from 2011) | 08:28 |
| bozonius | so your theory is quite possible | 08:28 |
| bozonius | I suppose on an ipfire "blue" network, which is usually wireless clients, that it would make sense to reject these on connections that appear to have an address already bound (static ip) | 08:29 |
| gnarface | it could be a security feature, right | 08:30 |
| gnarface | i can also confirm no dhcp requests on my lan anywhere | 08:30 |
| gnarface | just 3 irc networks and a tivo | 08:31 |
| bozonius | what about your ascii system? | 08:31 |
| gnarface | there are ascii machines on that lan | 08:31 |
| bozonius | tomorrow I will seek out help from the ipfire folks, see what they can suggest | 08:32 |
| gnarface | what about the vbox in the middle | 08:32 |
| gnarface | you're routing through a vbox? | 08:32 |
| bozonius | or... maybe there is another way to do this altogether | 08:32 |
| bozonius | right | 08:32 |
| gnarface | a virtual machine? | 08:32 |
| bozonius | yep | 08:32 |
| gnarface | it could be suspect too i think | 08:32 |
| bozonius | you are ALWAYS suspicious of anything *vbox* !!! | 08:32 |
| gnarface | true | 08:33 |
| bozonius | I don't know. I doubt that is the problem aside from the possiblity of ipfire itself | 08:33 |
| bozonius | let me do some more poking around | 08:33 |
| gnarface | well it's something we're both missing | 08:33 |
| gnarface | but it's not something i'm seeing | 08:33 |
| bozonius | so many potential un-subs | 08:34 |
| gnarface | it COULD be coming from the hardware in theory but that would be weird | 08:35 |
| bozonius | I tend to think it is from the kernel also | 08:35 |
| bozonius | and it could just be the way I've got ipfire configured | 08:35 |
| gnarface | is ipfire something you also installed on the test box? | 08:42 |
| gnarface | or is that just the router | 08:43 |
| gnarface | ? | 08:43 |
| bozonius | no, it's just on the main system I use, the one that the testbox connects to | 08:48 |
| bozonius | say, has there been a kernel update since I installed? | 08:49 |
| bozonius | I wonder... | 08:49 |
| bozonius | doesn't seem to be | 08:49 |
| bozonius | eh | 08:49 |
| bozonius | well, I need to break for a bit | 08:51 |
| bozonius | I'll try a few more things and get back to you | 08:52 |
| ]BFG[ | how good is the pulseaudio support in Devuan without shitd? | 12:30 |
| ]BFG[ | can I expect firefox/chrome/vlc work with HDMI audio out of the box? | 12:30 |
| KatolaZ | ]BFG[: hos is pulseaudio related to systemd? | 12:32 |
| KatolaZ | s/hos/how | 12:33 |
| djph | KatolaZ: wasn't it written by dear leader lennart? | 12:34 |
| KatolaZ | and this is sufficient to make it work only with systemd? | 12:35 |
| KatolaZ | o_O | 12:35 |
| KatolaZ | guys, let's try to leave religion out of technology :) | 12:35 |
| KatolaZ | a couple of days ago I was asked if such and such backup software was "compatible" with sysvinit | 12:35 |
| KatolaZ | WTF? | 12:35 |
| djph | that's dumb | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | why a backup software should know anything about which system is running as PID 1? | 12:36 |
| djph | I was just having a bit of fun with the question you "asked". | 12:36 |
| jaromil | lol | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | well, a question about pulseadio is not much smarter | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | jaromil: that was the italian radio... | 12:36 |
| KatolaZ | o_O | 12:36 |
| jaromil | ]BFG[: afaik pulse is usable in devuan if you don't mind dbus | 12:37 |
| james1138 | New question. I installed Wine into Devuan ASCII Xfce 32-bit with no problem but when I install any apps... neither the app nor Wine itself appears in the Whisker menu. Am I doing something wrong? | 17:53 |
| golinux | IMO the whisker menu is wrong. LOLOL! In any case . . . none of the apps I have running on wine appear in the default Xfce menu either. | 18:02 |
| golinux | I launch them from a custom entry in the panel. | 18:02 |
| golinux | james1138: ^^^ | 18:03 |
| james1138 | ouch | 18:04 |
| james1138 | Well... upgrade Whisker menu and reboot did nothing. | 18:13 |
| golinux | The only time I ever saw wine added to the main menu was on squeeze/gnome2 | 18:15 |
| james1138 | And... upgrade menulibre did nothing either. | 18:28 |
| james1138 | Well... I was able to go into local/share/applications and at least create a working link to desktop. | 19:01 |
| bozonius | virtualbox for ascii? | 21:07 |
| bozonius | synaptic search doesnt find it | 21:07 |
| KatolaZ | bozonius: it's in contrib | 21:08 |
| bozonius | does synaptic use the same sources as apt? | 21:10 |
| bozonius | I'm not seeing "contrib" in synaptic repos | 21:10 |
| KatolaZ | bozonius: you should add it in sources.list | 21:10 |
| bozonius | It is in there | 21:11 |
| KatolaZ | uh? | 21:11 |
| bozonius | just not showing in synaptic | 21:11 |
| KatolaZ | apt-cache policy virtualbox | 21:11 |
| bozonius | btw, KatolaZ,this is a brand new ascii install | 21:11 |
| KatolaZ | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=virtualbox&release=ascii | 21:11 |
| KatolaZ | it's in ascii-backports | 21:11 |
| bozonius | I thought you said contrib | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | it's in contrib | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | in ascii-backports | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 21:12 |
| bozonius | but anyway, no backports or contrib in synaptic | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | the two are not incompatible | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | bozonius: ascii-backports is a suite | 21:12 |
| KatolaZ | contrib is a component of a suite | 21:12 |
| bozonius | oh, wait | 21:13 |
| bozonius | I see now -- contrib is a section in say deb-src, like that | 21:13 |
| bozonius | ok | 21:13 |
| bozonius | apt search VirtualBox (and spelling variants) -- nada | 21:18 |
| bozonius | but | 21:18 |
| bozonius | apt search scribus returns list | 21:18 |
| bozonius | ??? | 21:18 |
| bozonius | same thing for apt-cache search | 21:19 |
| bozonius | nada for vbox | 21:19 |
| bozonius | http://hezeh.org/virtualbox-on-devuan/ | 21:22 |
| bozonius | "VirtualBox is an open source x86 emulator, on Devuan is not possible to install because of systemd dependencies, for this reason I recompiled from source." (Love the run-on sentences on the web...) | 21:24 |
| bozonius | are you certain it is in the repos, KatolaZ? I still am not able to get it | 21:25 |
| bozonius | or do I need to add "backports" somewhere in my apt config? | 21:26 |
| golinux | In your sources.list | 21:28 |
| amesser | bozonius: maybe use qemu/libvirt instead? | 21:30 |
| bozonius | ascii, not jessie? | 21:31 |
| bozonius | amesser: Maybe I should use debian/somethingelse instead? | 21:31 |
| bozonius | maybe junk this whole thing and take up golf? | 21:32 |
| amesser | well, was just an idea. i was using virtualbox for years, but since i figured out how to use qemu, well, i like it more | 21:32 |
| bozonius | fuck computers altogether | 21:32 |
| bozonius | I used to use qemu. | 21:32 |
| bozonius | but, atm, I am trying to install vbox host software, not qemu | 21:33 |
| bozonius | golinux: this is ascii now, do I add the same syntax as for jessie repos? | 21:33 |
| amesser | yes, just replace ascii with jessie | 21:35 |
| amesser | hmm, strange | 21:36 |
| amesser | I have "deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-backports main non-free contrib" in sources.list | 21:37 |
| amesser | but aptitude search virtualbox returns nothing | 21:37 |
| bozonius | may I ask how ascii-backports got in there -- mine doesn't have that | 21:39 |
| bozonius | amesser: see my message at :24:17, above | 21:40 |
| bozonius | systemd | 21:40 |
| bozonius | it's everywhere | 21:40 |
| fsmithred | bozonius, backports is /merged not /devuan | 21:40 |
| bozonius | I cannot escape from systemd | 21:40 |
| bozonius | I can run, but I cannot hide | 21:41 |
| bozonius | fsmithred? I see "merged" in sources.list | 21:41 |
| amesser | my sources list was also wrong | 21:41 |
| bozonius | I have not modified my sources.list | 21:41 |
| fsmithred | oh, that was amesser. sorry. | 21:41 |
| bozonius | it is the one that came with the install (netinst) | 21:41 |
| amesser | bozonius: you have to edit sources.list and add the following: | 21:42 |
| amesser | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ascii-backports main non-free contrib | 21:42 |
| bozonius | and you find virtualbox if you search? | 21:43 |
| amesser | the save file and do: | 21:43 |
| fsmithred | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main non-free contrib | 21:43 |
| fsmithred | no slash after /merged | 21:43 |
| amesser | apt-get update | 21:43 |
| amesser | shen you shoud find it | 21:43 |
| bozonius | do you find it? | 21:43 |
| amesser | yes afterwards i did | 21:43 |
| bozonius | ah, ok | 21:43 |
| bozonius | thanks | 21:43 |
| bozonius | so, no "-t" is needed? | 21:46 |
| fsmithred | to install it, you might need '-t ascii-backports' | 21:47 |
| bozonius | I thought (for some reason) that one needed "-t backports" to get | 21:48 |
| bozonius | ah! | 21:48 |
| bozonius | thanks | 21:48 |
| bozonius | actually,no | 21:48 |
| bozonius | apt install virtualbox does it | 21:48 |
| bozonius | is there a way to prevent it from including backports by default? | 21:49 |
| bozonius | not sure I want to upgrade as much as it wants to | 21:49 |
| fsmithred | bozonius, try installing the deps from ascii, then try adding vbox again from backports | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | you might not | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | need everything from bpo | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | and if you want to prevent stuff from sneaking in, you can pin backports to a lower priority | 21:51 |
| fsmithred | or comment it out when you're done | 21:51 |
| amesser | i think it will not install packages by default from backports, only if you request package which is only in backports. see http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii-backports/contrib/binary-amd64/Release | 21:52 |
| bozonius | thanks fsmithred, that's what I needed to know | 21:53 |
| bozonius | I think I'll just comment it out | 21:53 |
| bozonius | (for now...) | 21:53 |
| bozonius | I note that in jessie, virtualbox is in contrib, not backports | 21:53 |
| bozonius | seems to be anyway | 21:53 |
| bozonius | fsmithred, it still wants to install all kinds of stuff, which I am not sure I want to do at this time | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | there is no vbox in stretch/ascii, only in backports | 21:56 |
| fsmithred | also in jessie, buster/beowulf and sid/ceres | 21:56 |
| fsmithred | add '--no-install-recommends' | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | bbiab | 21:58 |
| bozonius | had to also install virtualbox-qt to get the UI | 22:35 |
| bozonius | but it is working now. | 22:35 |
| bozonius | thanks all who have helped me. amesser: I will try out qemu and other tools as I am able | 22:38 |
| bozonius | bbl | 22:41 |
| nacelle | be sure to check out virt-manager if you do | 23:01 |
| nacelle | it makes qemu-kvm admin pretty simple, for the most part | 23:01 |
| nacelle | its... akin to the thick client of vmware... sort of. Kind of. | 23:02 |
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