| _abc_ | Hi. Has anyone had trouble with the current edition of refractainstaller in advanced mode with existing partitions? I would like to do an install on a partition without backing up the entire disk, any known problems? | 09:37 |
|---|---|---|
| _abc_ | Other than the ext4 one discussed some days ago, which I will avoid? | 09:37 |
| Chain|Q | hi | 12:39 |
| Chain|Q | playing with ASCII RC on my RPi3+ | 12:39 |
| Chain|Q | ran into this issue: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=887062 | 12:40 |
| Chain|Q | also, the firmware package itself seems to be ancient, from 2016... | 12:40 |
| Chain|Q | (i'm using the 64bit aarch64 version, just in case) | 12:42 |
| KatolaZ | parazyd: ^^^^ | 12:44 |
| Chain|Q | sigh... the latest sid package from debian fails the same way. | 12:47 |
| Chain|Q | even if i create /boot/firmware by hand | 12:47 |
| _abc_ | Hello again. Re: refracta installer in devuan ascii live: It is my understanding that the installer copies the system from the live disk to the target installation destination. What happens if the live disk is in persistent boot mode and has a lot more things installed than the vanilla bare usb stick/iso boot? Are the extras copied in too or does refracta stick to the pre-programmed lists? | 15:12 |
| _abc_ | Am trying to read up on this, information is a bit confusing. | 15:14 |
| _abc_ | http://www.debianuserforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=3661 this sounds like I should stick to the cli install version of refracta scripts? I am targeting i386 not 64 bits- | 15:18 |
| _abc_ | Mmh too early in N.Am. I think. 0930AM or so East coast | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Are the extras copied in too<< aiui that's the whole point of this installer | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | somebody put it exatly this way, a few days ago here in this channel. Words to the effect of "I configure my system so everything is installed and works the way I like, then I install this very system from live to target" | 15:24 |
| _abc_ | There's extra confusion caused by the refracta distribution https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/84129.html | 15:27 |
| _abc_ | DocScrutinizer05: okay, famous last words, heh. We'll try. I'll be back soon, cussing a bit, likely. | 15:28 |
| _abc_ | Kidding. | 15:28 |
| _abc_ | I would like to not back up all partitions on the disk while I wedge ascii into a 19GB partition. | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask fsmithred | 15:28 |
| _abc_ | It's painfully slow. | 15:28 |
| _abc_ | Yeah, I'm waiting for him to chip in a bit. | 15:29 |
| _abc_ | Gonna fill a washing machine while waiting. | 15:29 |
| _abc_ | bbl | 15:38 |
| msiism | KatolaZ: if you don't use apt, what do you use instead? | 16:21 |
| _abc_ | So, people awake, rise and shine? | 16:23 |
| KatolaZ | msiism: apt-get | 16:24 |
| KatolaZ | apt-cache | 16:24 |
| KatolaZ | (and the occasional dselect, but honestly not that much any more...) | 16:25 |
| msiism | KatolaZ: ok, how does that differ from "apt"? | 16:26 |
| msiism | isn't that apt? | 16:26 |
| KatolaZ | different defaults | 16:26 |
| KatolaZ | nope | 16:26 |
| KatolaZ | apt is a separate tool | 16:26 |
| KatolaZ | which can do the same as apt-get, apt-cache, apt-file | 16:27 |
| msiism | oh. didn't know that. | 16:27 |
| msiism | is that a package of it's own? | 16:28 |
| KatolaZ | msiism: what? | 16:33 |
| msiism | if so, it can't be named "apt", since the "apt" package is the apt-* toolset (https://packages.debian.org/stretch/apt) | 16:33 |
| KatolaZ | msiism: they are all in the apt package | 16:34 |
| msiism | KatolaZ: ok, i just tested this, yes. | 16:34 |
| msiism | so, it's like a wrapper script | 16:34 |
| KatolaZ | nope, apt is a separate binary | 16:35 |
| msiism | ok, i see. confusing... | 16:36 |
| KatolaZ | they all link libapt-pkg, I guess | 16:36 |
| msiism | yes, that's kind of what it says in the package description. | 16:37 |
| msiism | why did ubuntu have to do this... | 16:40 |
| * msiism is reading https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/ now | 16:40 | |
| KatolaZ | msiism: basically, apt developers seem to believe that people are too dumb to use apt-get/apt-cache | 16:46 |
| KatolaZ | that's why they are "encouraging" the usage of apt, IMHO | 16:47 |
| msiism | KatolaZ: well, they do have a point in saying apt-* is not too well arranged ('apt-get remove' always sounds strange to me). but that's about the only point they have. | 16:49 |
| KatolaZ | msiism: initially poettering had only the "boot time" point for systemd, and still... | 16:50 |
| msiism | they could have at least called it something else, e.g. 'sapt' (simple apt), to avaoid confusion. | 16:51 |
| ttr | is not aptitude for this ? :D :P | 16:51 |
| KatolaZ | yes ttr | 16:51 |
| msiism | ttr: depends :) | 16:51 |
| KatolaZ | and aptitute developers seem to think that people are too dumb to use either apt or apt-get/apt-cache.... | 16:52 |
| KatolaZ | ~aptitude | 16:52 |
| ttr | (sarcasm was there, btw) | 16:52 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 16:52 |
| parazyd | Chain|Q: come over to #devuan-arm | 16:52 |
| * msiism is too dumb to use aptitude's ncurses interface | 16:52 | |
| ttr | well, i use mostly aptitude | 16:52 |
| ttr | and it have almost same options as apt now (from cli) | 16:52 |
| ttr | and was a big update form tasksel :) | 16:53 |
| KatolaZ | ttr: I guess you mean dselect... | 16:53 |
| ttr | ...it was like 15y ago | 16:53 |
| ttr | so possibly :) | 16:53 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 16:53 |
| KatolaZ | yes, then it's dselect | 16:53 |
| KatolaZ | tasksel was introduced with debian-installer | 16:53 |
| KatolaZ | (lenny, IIRC) | 16:54 |
| ttr | ah | 16:54 |
| * ttr is happy to go on memory line :P | 16:54 | |
| KatolaZ | dselect is the "evolotion" of the original dpkg | 16:54 |
| ttr | i've chocked :P | 16:54 |
| KatolaZ | developed by Ian Murdock | 16:54 |
| KatolaZ | :) | 16:55 |
| KatolaZ | (which had no resemblance with the dpkg we know today) | 16:55 |
| KatolaZ | ttr: you find an image of Debian 0.91beta here http://kalos.mine.nu/histlinux/ | 17:06 |
| FatPhil | Hmmm, kswapd0 is using 100% cpu, even after I've swapoff -a, any ideas what I can do | 17:09 |
| ttr | KatolaZ: haha :) | 17:11 |
| ttr | FatPhil: did it finish removing swap OR it's still doing it ? | 17:11 |
| ttr | also IIRC kswapd is not only for swap but for memory (RAM and SWAP) manage | 17:13 |
| ttr | https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/html/understand/understand013.html | 17:15 |
| ttr | section 10.6 | 17:15 |
| ttr | (and i know it's for old-as-f*** kernel but it's still same concept IIRC) | 17:16 |
| _abc_ | So, anyone had bad experiences with refracta running from a live usb stick with persistence booted usb stick? ascii? Should I install from the persistence system or boot clean into the live desktop and install the plain live desktop to avoid nasty surprizes? | 18:32 |
| _abc_ | *s | 18:32 |
| _abc_ | ?? | 18:49 |
| msiism | fsmithred: ^^^ | 18:51 |
| carcharot | hallo... | 19:55 |
| carcharot | I hav'a question... | 19:55 |
| Leander | feel free to ask | 19:57 |
| carcharot | WHAT SOFTWARE COMES PREINSTALLED ON DEVUAN? | 19:57 |
| carcharot | sorry for the caps... | 19:57 |
| koollman | IT DEPENDS! :) | 19:57 |
| carcharot | I mean.... | 19:57 |
| carcharot | office software, | 19:58 |
| Wonka | apt, dpkg will quite surely be preinstalled... | 19:58 |
| carcharot | haha | 19:58 |
| koollman | with default install, I guess there's a list somewhere | 19:58 |
| koollman | but even during installation you can select more stuff (or less) | 19:58 |
| Wonka | define "default install". When I installed, I chose it to be fairly minimal at first. | 19:58 |
| carcharot | koollman: that's what I've being unable to find | 19:58 |
| koollman | Wonka: not making choices in the package or group of packages selection, I guess | 19:59 |
| Wonka | carcharot: you can always do something like "apt-get install libreoffice"... | 19:59 |
| koollman | that would be 'default' to me | 19:59 |
| carcharot | I am a GNU/LMint user..., not a very skillful one... | 19:59 |
| Wonka | koollman: I've been using Debian for quite some time, and Redhat before that, and SuSE Linux 4.4 before that... | 19:59 |
| carcharot | ok, I'm supposed to install what I want to have there..., ok | 19:59 |
| Wonka | koollman: so, yes, I know where to select and de-select stuff in installers ;) | 20:00 |
| carcharot | is there enough for the average end-user in the repositories? | 20:00 |
| Wonka | carcharot: surely. libreoffice, for one, is good enough for quite some endusers. | 20:00 |
| Wonka | carcharot: also, Firefox, Thunderbird, Chromium. | 20:01 |
| Leander | I think that all office software that is available for debian is also on devuan | 20:01 |
| carcharot | ok, perfect for me; just a last question... | 20:01 |
| Wonka | Leander: likely, as it probably does not depend on systemd in any way | 20:02 |
| carcharot | what about the kernel thing? I've read that devuan is using a very old version, is it secure enough? | 20:02 |
| carcharot | -I'm a total ignorant- | 20:02 |
| Wonka | well, I do see Linux 3.16 in stable, but I also see 4.16 in unstable. | 20:03 |
| Leander | the main version is old, but they keep patching it | 20:03 |
| carcharot | ah, ok, that is it..., I will try devuan, wish me luck! | 20:03 |
| carcharot | thanks to you all, Wonka Leander and everybody else... | 20:04 |
| Leander | also, you can have a more recent kernel from the backports repository (in case you have too recent hardware) | 20:04 |
| Wonka | stable-security has linux-image-3.16.0-6-amd64 3.16.56-1+deb8u1; kernel.org has 3.16.56 - seems as current as 3.16 gets | 20:04 |
| obeardly | I had to install the 4.9 kernel from backports on my laptop. | 20:05 |
| obeardly | Otherwise, it just wouldn't function. | 20:05 |
| carcharot | m, | 20:05 |
| Wonka | (I don't care much about distro kernels though because I compile my own. Works fine.) | 20:05 |
| carcharot | ok, but... newer kernel does not require systemd? | 20:05 |
| obeardly | No, it does not | 20:06 |
| Wonka | no | 20:06 |
| carcharot | ohhh, ok | 20:06 |
| Wonka | maybe the other way round - systemd might require fairly new kernels... | 20:06 |
| carcharot | cool! good to know | 20:06 |
| Wonka | but Linus curses about systemd often enough to not allow Linux to depend on systemd. | 20:06 |
| obeardly | carcharot: If you enable backports in jessie, you can install the 4.9 backports kernel without issue. | 20:07 |
| carcharot | My computer is quite old, even by being of 64b, so..., | 20:07 |
| Wonka | (not that making a kernel depend on anything in userspace would make much sense) | 20:07 |
| obeardly | ^ True story | 20:07 |
| carcharot | obeardly: thanks for the info, but I am not -sill- able to do that... | 20:07 |
| Leander | then don't worry about the backports, the 3.16 is still up-to-date with regards to security | 20:07 |
| obeardly | Why not? | 20:07 |
| carcharot | obeardly: It's called ignorance, I think... | 20:08 |
| carcharot | jajaj | 20:08 |
| carcharot | a common decease | 20:08 |
| carcharot | -.- | 20:08 |
| obeardly | Can you edit a text file? | 20:08 |
| obeardly | But Leander is correct, the 3.16 kernel will work fine, especially if you're on older hardware. | 20:08 |
| carcharot | obeardly: It si not the text-file edition, but to know what to write in there exactly | 20:09 |
| carcharot | haha | 20:09 |
| obeardly | Edit this file: /etc/apt/sources.list | 20:09 |
| carcharot | yes, the 3.16, if patched, will be more that enough for me... | 20:09 |
| carcharot | for sure | 20:09 |
| obeardly | Put this in it: deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main contrib non-free | 20:09 |
| obeardly | Then: apt-get update | 20:10 |
| obeardly | Now you have backports enabled. | 20:10 |
| carcharot | m, ok | 20:11 |
| carcharot | ha, cool | 20:11 |
| obeardly | Also, I believe during install, if you're installing fresh, it will ask if you want to enable backports. Just say yes there, and you'll have backports available. | 20:11 |
| carcharot | that is nice..., maye be, after installing, I will try | 20:11 |
| carcharot | obeardly: sorry, what are the "backports" for? | 20:12 |
| obeardly | New packages that are backported for an older version of the OS. | 20:12 |
| carcharot | m | 20:12 |
| carcharot | ok, nice to know... | 20:12 |
| carcharot | awesome..., | 20:12 |
| obeardly | For example, virtualbox is not in the standard repos, but it's in the backports repo. | 20:13 |
| obeardly | Another example, the standard install gives you kernel 3.16, but you need a newer kernel, backports has kernel 4.9 | 20:13 |
| carcharot | aha..., ok, I have a lot to learn, but sill try, thanks again | 20:13 |
| obeardly | Well, this channel is full of people that are well versed, probably much more so than I am, but anyone here will do what they can. | 20:14 |
| obeardly | I was a debian package maintainer/tester years ago, and I've been with Devuan since day one. | 20:14 |
| obeardly | It's phenomenal OS, and an even better community. | 20:14 |
| carcharot | will try the OS, and probably will be here soon asking for help, haha | 20:15 |
| carcharot | obeardly: thanks again! | 20:15 |
| obeardly | Anytime. | 20:15 |
| carcharot | see you all soon! | 20:15 |
| _abc_ | Ahh the experts are here. | 20:20 |
| _abc_ | How risky is it to install with refracta from a loaded persistence enhanced live iso on usb? | 20:21 |
| _abc_ | Should one drop down to plain non peristence booted live desktop and install that or it is okay to install the whole thing as is. Does persistence confuse refracta? Mount points, unionfs, etc? | 20:21 |
| _abc_ | I've asked this several times in the last 2 days... waiting for an answer... | 20:22 |
| msiism | _abc_: i can't help you, sorry. you might try asking this on the d1g forum as well. | 20:29 |
| * _abc_ assumes the worst, in the manner of the Byzantine generals, and goes for vanilla non persistence install | 20:29 | |
| _abc_ | msiism: d1g? | 20:29 |
| msiism | dev1galaxy.org | 20:29 |
| _abc_ | Ah. | 20:46 |
| _abc_ | So reflecta, first it was a distribution, then a script? I there no connection between the 2? | 20:47 |
| obeardly | _abc_: you still here? | 21:22 |
| _abc_ | Hmm. I ran the installer from the vanilla ascii desktop live, and ended up with no grub on the partition I installed. Where is the grub normally installed, in /boot/ ? | 21:59 |
| _abc_ | I mean it's files | 21:59 |
| xrogaan | yeah | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | I have grub-common installed but grub2 is not | 22:02 |
| xrogaan | has to be generated though | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | Are you talking to me? | 22:02 |
| xrogaan | yeah | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | okay | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | So if I re-run the install with grub2 installed it should magically appear? | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | ? | 22:03 |
| xrogaan | grub-mkconfig should generate a grub, normally. | 22:03 |
| xrogaan | check if you have a /etc/grub.d/ | 22:03 |
| _abc_ | Need to boot into the target system 1st | 22:03 |
| xrogaan | or use the livecd, rescue and regenerate grub. fsmithred helped me when the netinstall would fail at the grub thingy. | 22:04 |
| _abc_ | nope, no grub.d and no menu thing in /boot | 22:04 |
| _abc_ | ok | 22:04 |
| xrogaan | grub.d is a folder | 22:05 |
| _abc_ | Next: I have a dual boot system, and the nst_grub.mbr is installed (old grub) vs new AutoNeoGrub0.mbr ; I assume it should work anyway but we'll see. | 22:05 |
| _abc_ | xrogaan: I am aware | 22:05 |
| xrogaan | /etc/grub.d defines how the grub menu should be built. | 22:06 |
| _abc_ | Oh usually it's in /boot too but okay | 22:06 |
| xrogaan | no, /boot contains the configuration file | 22:06 |
| _abc_ | Installing grub2 package brings in what is needed. | 22:06 |
| _abc_ | Understood, I'll try the rescue mode now | 22:06 |
| xrogaan | grub.cfg usually starts with # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE | 22:07 |
| xrogaan | check the /etc/default/grub file too | 22:07 |
| xrogaan | if you have grub-common installed, you should have a /etc/grub.d/ folder | 22:07 |
| xrogaan | try to run update-grub ? | 22:08 |
| xrogaan | the grub2 package is a dummy one | 22:11 |
| xrogaan | you want grub2-common | 22:12 |
| abcabc_ | common was iirc installed, no /etc/grub.d dir. after installing grub2 it appeared | 22:16 |
| xrogaan | this is the content of grub2: http://dpaste.com//00WWKFE | 22:20 |
| abcabc_ | the mbr question is more interesting. will see | 22:20 |
| abcabc_ | thanks, i know what should be in it | 22:21 |
| xrogaan | http://dpaste.com//1E5GNTE | 22:21 |
| abcabc_ | fsmithred: has not been around for a few days? | 22:21 |
| xrogaan | welp | 22:21 |
| xrogaan | yeah, so grub-common is needed alongside grub2-common. | 22:23 |
| xrogaan | I don't know why. | 22:23 |
| _abc_ | Beep. Okay, so I'm on ascii, installing the bootloader in a partition was a bit dicey, this process could be automated, and there could be a warning in the installer that the installer is the user not the script... I had to guess at it. | 23:03 |
| _abc_ | So, again: 1) install grub2 package from synaptic; 2) run the installer script; 3) get into the chroot console and run the grub install commands manually, WITH CARE. the --force option for install on a partition is required and generates warnings, it works anyway. No typos allowed ;) After that one runs update-grub and exits the chroot and it's done. | 23:04 |
| KnoF | hi, are there any drivers for tahiti r9 280 on linux | 23:04 |
| _abc_ | The above is for ascii install onto existing partition on multi-boot machine | 23:05 |
| KnoF | amds driver require some old xorg | 23:05 |
| KnoF | and im on ceres | 23:05 |
| _abc_ | This message brought to you from ascii, with most data intact on the disk, I hope | 23:05 |
| _abc_ | devuan live persistence request (I hope someone reads this): PLEASE put in a clean umount at the end of the sesstion, the persistence media is always left dirty. It can be done by remounting ro at the end, probably. | 23:10 |
| gnarface | KnoF: the version of amdgpu in ceres should work with the version of xorg also in ceres. | 23:16 |
| KnoF | ty | 23:17 |
| KnoF | the driver for 280x is from 2014 | 23:17 |
| KnoF | maybe i should do force install | 23:17 |
| KnoF | will try thank you | 23:17 |
| gnarface | KnoF: since the card hasn't been around that long i'm sure you're mis-evaluating something | 23:19 |
| gnarface | don't mix repos | 23:19 |
| gnarface | that card does use amdgpu, right? | 23:20 |
| gnarface | xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu (18.0.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium | 23:21 |
| gnarface | * New upstream release. | 23:21 |
| gnarface | -- Timo Aaltonen <tjaalton@debian.org> Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:02:29 +0200 | 23:21 |
| gnarface | ^this is from the current ceres changelog | 23:21 |
| gnarface | oh, i guess that card IS that old | 23:24 |
| gnarface | still... | 23:24 |
| * gnarface assumes what he *actually* needed was just a little more patience and a 4-line xorg.conf snippet | 23:25 | |
| KnoF | gnufarce will try | 23:29 |
| KnoF | at booting the kernel it says driver missing | 23:29 |
| gnarface | it might be present just not loaded | 23:29 |
| gnarface | you can't jump from that to the conclusion that the xorg version is from 2014 | 23:30 |
| gnarface | the logic just doesn't fit with the evidence on hand | 23:30 |
| KnoF | im have to reboot to try, thanks for the tip | 23:30 |
| gnarface | wait | 23:30 |
| KnoF | i have* | 23:30 |
| gnarface | no, you don't have to reboot to try either | 23:30 |
| gnarface | who even gave you that idea? | 23:30 |
| KnoF | im on a different os now | 23:30 |
| gnarface | oh | 23:30 |
| gnarface | well then you do | 23:30 |
| gnarface | auto-detect probably just gives you some generic vesa or framebuffer driver | 23:31 |
| gnarface | you'll have to override that | 23:31 |
| KnoF | the funny thing is that peak fps in games with wine is the same as in windows, just not consistant | 23:33 |
| KnoF | :) | 23:33 |
| gnarface | wine can be bottlenecked by stuff other than the video card (often) | 23:33 |
| gnarface | it's a really bad benchmarking suite | 23:33 |
| gnarface | you'd be better off using glxgears | 23:33 |
| gnarface | (which everyone will tell you not to use for benchmarking, right up until you tell them you were gonna use wine instead) | 23:34 |
| gnarface | what you really should be doing is reading the Xorg log file to figure out what driver is really loading, and why | 23:34 |
| KnoF | kk. thanks for the heads up | 23:35 |
| KnoF | going to try now, will report :) | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | !seen fsmithred | 23:39 |
| infobot | fsmithred is currently on #devuan, last said: 'it's meant to work during a live session. I have it in my installed systems because refractainstaller copies it'. | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | !logsearch meant to work during a live session | 23:40 |
| infobot | https://www.startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=site%3Abotbot.me%2Ffreenode%2Fdevuan%2F+"meant to work during a live session" | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GOSH, botbot is such a crap | 23:42 |
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