libera/#devuan-dev/ Friday, 2019-01-25

zcram10:54
LeePenHi, I have policykit-1 0.105-25+devuan1 ready for review. Shall I email the list or is here enough?15:34
KatolaZLeePen: where is it?15:50
KatolaZmaybe send a brief email to devuan-dev?15:50
KatolaZand we can build it in the meanwhile15:50
LeePenhttps://git.devuan.org/LeePen/policykit-1 suites/unstable-proposed15:51
LeePenOK15:51
KatolaZoh it's in your repo15:51
KatolaZthen please send an email to devuan-dev15:51
LeePenFine. Thanks.15:51
KatolaZif nobody answers, we will merge it into devuan-packages15:52
KatolaZthank oyu15:52
jaromilLeePen: thanks!16:53
fsmithredjaromil, I can make a live-usb that boots with grub on bios or uefi. ("can" = "just did it and it works")17:23
onefangfsmithred: I'd like to see that.17:58
fsmithredstill working on it, but you will get to see it18:02
golinuxVery exciting news!18:25
fsmithredminimal-live is not booting. :(18:34
KatolaZfsmithred: why?18:37
fsmithredKatolaZ, I don't know. I made a multiboot live-usb the way I normally do.18:39
fsmithredafter "something crng" it hangs then drops to initramfs prompt18:40
fsmithredit should boot on a 12-year-old pentium dual-core, shouldn't it?18:43
fsmithredusing the i386 iso18:43
KatolaZfsmithred: there must be a problem in the root fs18:52
fsmithredmaybe. I just tried on another usb and did not replace isolinux with grub (like I did on the other) and I'm getting the same thing.18:54
fsmithredKatolaZ, does the initrd have modules for fat32 fs?18:59
KatolaZoh dunno19:00
KatolaZI have stripped off a good deal of modules from the initramfs19:00
KatolaZthe default one is insanely fat for a live system19:01
KatolaZlet me check19:01
KatolaZfsmithred: yeah, I remove fat modules in mini-iso19:02
kilobytedon't you want a fat initramfs for a live system, so it can be moved across machines?19:03
fsmithreddesktop-live is fat19:03
fsmithredminimal-live is for those who shun fat19:03
kilobytehaven't seen a SD card lesser than 16GB in a while, and I'm someone who actually uses such machines a lot19:04
golinuxI installed the mini-iso for 32bit19:04
KatolaZkilobyte: the fact that you have hw for that, and RAM, does not mean that everybody does19:05
golinuxThe mini-iso is different from the minimal-live19:05
KatolaZgolinux: sure it is19:05
golinuxThat was a statement not a question19:05
kilobyteyeah, but the initramfs gets freed away after early boot19:05
KatolaZif you can boot...19:05
KatolaZ'cause the original initramfs requires more than 256MB of ram19:06
KatolaZand removing fibrechannel drivers shouldn't hurt anybody19:06
KatolaZ:)19:06
KatolaZand removing unneded filesystems19:06
KatolaZsince the rootfs is ext419:06
fsmithredKatolaZ, what I'm working on is an idea that came up in meeting - for d1conf merchandise, live-usb with devuan on it19:06
KatolaZfsmithred: good point19:07
fsmithredbut the minimal live won't work this way (multi-boot usb on fat32)19:07
KatolaZthen, just modify live-sdk/blends/devuan-minimal-live/ascii/scripts/create_initrd.sh19:07
KatolaZand comment the line that removed the fat drivers19:07
KatolaZhold on19:07
KatolaZline 127 in the file19:08
fsmithredI was thinking of maybe switching fat32 to ext - if I'm not using syslinux, that might work19:08
KatolaZno need19:09
KatolaZjust comment that line19:09
fsmithredyeah, after I clone the repo19:09
KatolaZI can do the change19:10
KatolaZhold on19:10
KatolaZpushed19:10
kilobytespeaking of trimming initramfs too much: stock RockPro64 images lack radeon drivers, which turned out to be a nasty surprise for me -- the machine requires a vendor kernel whose source is supplied but requires some very specific toolchain versions and incantations the author didn't bother to share, thus replacing the kernel is non-trivial19:13
kilobytebecause no one would need GPU drivers on arm64 if the machine has embedded graphics already, right?19:14
kilobyteexcept that my monitor needs specifically DP not HDMI, and their DP is buggy19:14
kilobyte(arm* has no equivalent for basic VGA, thus without specific drivers you get no display at all, rather than a degraded one)19:16
KatolaZkilobyte: minimal-live is only available for i386 and amd6419:18
kilobyteyeah, but weird hardware is what needs weird drivers, and even though fibrechannel comes on big iron, that's the kind of machines that use weird boot media that might have a limit somewhere19:20
onefangBig iron has big sysadmin teams to look after them.19:21
KatolaZkilobyte: if some admin ever comes with a request for fibrechannel drivers to use minimal-live in their mainframe, well, we will consider it19:22
KatolaZthe average use case for minimal-live is visually impaired and blind users19:22
KatolaZplus simple recovery tasks19:22
KatolaZwe cannot cater for all the possible use cases19:23
KatolaZand we are already providing quite a wide choice of install and live media, I guess :)19:23
RyushinAny hopes to have Devuan installable through windows linux subsystem?  As if you don't have enough on your plates.  :)19:52
KatolaZRyushin: why at all?19:54
KatolaZo_O19:54
RyushinBecause, to this day, windows does not include bash or ssh.19:58
RyushinI'll install Debian.19:59
RyushinNeed the shell, sed, awk, and all the other great tools.20:00
RyushinOh, and vi, don't forget vi.  tail is nice too.20:00
fsmithredRyushin, if debian is installable, why is not devuan?20:00
fsmithreddoes windows require systemd?20:01
fsmithredor is it a name problem?20:01
RyushinI would not think so.  I think it just needs to be packages for it.20:01
fsmithredwhat are the debian packages for it?20:01
Ryushinhttps://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-manual20:02
KatolaZRyushin: is cygwin still around?20:02
RyushinKatolaZ: It is from what I understand.  Just stopped using it when we got this.20:03
Ryushinapt-get any package I want20:03
KatolaZRyushin: not my cookie, sorry20:03
KatolaZI left windows completely 18 years ago20:04
KatolaZand never looked back :)20:04
KatolaZI think that the idea of the Windows Linux Subsystem is just totally broken, if you ask20:04
RyushinIt would not surprise me one bit.  Only use it because I need the tools.  I still have to administrate some windows servers.20:05
fsmithredRyushin, it looks like this Appx file for Debian has a bootstrap tarball in it. The appx file is a zip archive. Maybe it can be modified without too much trouble.20:05
fsmithredother option might be to install debian then upgrade to devuan.20:06
Ryushinfsmithred: Now we are talking.  What a grand idea.20:06
fsmithredit's also possible that I'm overly optimistic20:06
fsmithredcan't see what's in debian.exe20:07
RyushinKatolaZ: Been using linux since '93.  Did about three years with OS/2 and Linux and then went back to Linux as my main system since 97 I think it was.20:07
Ryushinfsmithred: I'll let you know if I can "upgrade" to Devuan.  :)20:08
fsmithredif you start with a minimal debian, it should be pretty simple20:08
KatolaZRyushin: didn't mean to judge you :)20:09
KatolaZI know many people still have to use Windows and/or aminister windows machines20:09
KatolaZI am happy I don't have to ;)20:09
fsmithredI'll be afk for a bit.20:10
RyushinKatolaZ: Oh, you're not judging me.  Just saying been doing this a long time.  Only apple I owned was the ][e.  Then Jobs torpedoed that.  But I really did like the NeXT Cube.20:16
RyushinI feel old.  LOL20:16
Ryushin110 baud modem.  Oh the horror.20:17
KatolaZRyushin: :)20:21
KatolaZI am only slightly younger than you, I guess20:21
RyushinWell, one more year, and half a century for me.20:21
Ryushinfsmithred: Upgrading to Devuan from Debian in windows went very smoothly.20:48
golinuxCongrats!20:48
golinuxRyushin: You and KatolaZ are teenagers.  I'm over 3/4 of a century.  Everything is relative . . .20:49
Ryushingolinux: I'm going to go tell my wife that I'm a teenager.  She will laugh.20:50
golinuxUltimately, 'tis all in the mind.20:51
Ryushingolinux: Well, if I feel old in saying my first "real" computer was a ][e, I don't want to think what you started on.20:51
RyushinTimex Sinclair, that was childs play.20:51
RyushinWhen I grew up, we programed in only zeros as ones had not been invented yet.20:52
golinuxI didn't own a computer till I was over 60 and didn't want one!20:52
golinuxIt was a gift that I didn't want but learned to like.20:53
RyushinInteresting.  So you don't remember the horrors of DOS and Windows 3.1, NT 3.51, etc.20:53
RyushinWell, don't tell us youngsters that.20:54
RyushinLet them wonder just how many wizened years you have working with computers.  Grow a beard and smoke a pipe.20:55
golinuxWrong gender for beard-growing.  ;)20:56
RyushinWell, purged systemd and installed sysvinit as well.  So it is Devuan through and through now.20:57
golinuxGood news!20:57
* golinux goes for a cup of tea20:57
KatolaZRyushin: started on a CPC464, if you remember it21:27
KatolaZgolinux: nobody would believe I am a teenager21:28
RyushinKotolaZ: Looks like a better computer then what I started on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV-318  I had a cassette tape to save my programs.  Got the Apple ][e after that and I was on that for years.21:32
RyushinWrote my first games in basic on that thing.  Then cut my teeth on 6502 machine language on the Apple ][e and then I got to do assembly with the Merlin program and Pascal as well.21:35
KatolaZmine had cassettes as well21:38
KatolaZa Z8021:38
KatolaZand a BASIC ;)21:38
RyushinAhh, the memories.  Then we grew up and had to get a job.21:42
fsmithredI started with a 386 and drdos. (not counting the one class in college that gave me bad dreams of sorting punch cards all night long.)22:03

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