libera/#devuan-dev/ Tuesday, 2018-05-29

KatolaZsince nobody has complained00:00
fsmithredI'm not suggesting that we remove it00:00
KatolaZthey can still remove pulseaudio if they want00:00
KatolaZit's a recommends00:00
KatolaZnot a depends00:00
fsmithredI'm saying we don't need to remove it because it's so easy00:00
fsmithredit does not want to remove the whole desktop00:00
KatolaZCenturion_Dan: I agree, it's not critical for ascii, since apt-get remove pulseudio solves the problem00:00
KatolaZlet's keep it in mind for beowulf though00:01
KatolaZoh sorry fsmithred, probably misread you :)00:03
KatolaZso we are all on the same page00:03
fsmithredyeah, I think so00:03
KatolaZgood00:03
fsmithredkilobyte, you were right about the pinning. I changed my pin for libsystemd0 in jessie and tried to upgrade to ascii, and it wants to remove the desktop.00:19
golinuxAre we having a meet this Wed?01:01
golinuxLast week was a major washout.01:02
Centurion_Dangolinux: I hope to be there...06:09
parazydgolinux: Don't feel bad about _every_ week these days. We all know what's up and things are better correlated here on irc.06:14
parazyd(This is wrt release, naturally)06:16
golinuxCenturion_Dan: OK.  I create a pad then.06:45
golinuxHere's the pad for this Wed. meet: https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/wUm1s4RNyvloWE6yY35-yw/Yz1RXdNy2tdmX6ebt8Vg60UB/07:09
jaromilabout pulseaudio, IMHO: I believe we cannot address the problem in a RC cycle unless is as serious as "gets installed during upgrade" as Centurion has warned (did anyone replicate this?)12:47
parazydIt gets installed as Recommends.12:48
parazyds,as,with,12:48
jaromilmore in general on the method I believe what happened to elogind and the desktop thanks to gnu_srs amesser Irrwahn and all those who helped is the way to go: a group of people not a single person gets focused on a problem to solve it with more eyes on it, during a development period and a clear agenda that is acknowledged by all (in that case the agenda being dekstop fixing which we all agreed as12:49
jaromilnecessary)12:49
jaromilis there a growth of inclusion of pulseaudio into other packages recommends then, between jessie and ascii?12:50
KatolaZjaromil: don't think so12:50
jaromilgeneric remark: I've stepped in beowulf and recommends: were quite annoying in the process. sorry did not document12:50
KatolaZpulseaudio was already pulled in as a recommend in jessie, IIRC12:50
jaromilyes12:51
jaromilthat I remember12:51
KatolaZso there is not a regression there12:51
KatolaZit might be annoying for some users12:51
KatolaZbut it's just an "apt-get remove --purge" awat12:51
KatolaZ~away12:51
parazydGuys, this is no different than dbus.12:51
parazydAnd we're not acting on dbus, are we?12:51
jaromilnot during an RC and a clear plan and team dedicated to the issue12:52
jaromilsadly enough I think people using Devuan as desktop are used to being annoyed by pulseaudio in a way or another. I am and don't consider it either a regression. certainly something to be fixed.12:52
parazydRemember that Tor Browser won't have sound without pulse, and probably Firefox soon enough (unsure of its current state).12:52
parazydjaromil: It's xfce that's pulling it in.12:53
jaromilshame on tor browser for this. such a good project falling in the tarpit12:53
parazydTo be honest, I'm pretty sure most users of xfce don't mind pulse.12:54
KatolaZparazyd: only as a recommend12:54
KatolaZyeah, namely12:54
parazydThe more experienced ones can simply purge it out without destroying anything.12:54
KatolaZand also, I don't think our mission is to get rid of pulseaudio12:54
KatolaZI have never used it12:54
parazydIt was presented in such a way.12:54
KatolaZand as long as it is not mandatory, I am fine12:55
KatolaZparazyd: where?12:55
parazydIn the backlog of this channel. Yesterday and the day before.12:55
KatolaZoh12:56
KatolaZwell, but that's not the stated aim of devuan right? :D12:56
parazydOf course.12:56
parazydI'm just saying, we shouldn't behave like that either.12:56
parazydRather rationally look at the issue (if any).12:56
KatolaZyep12:56
KatolaZwell but this seems to have been "solved:12:57
KatolaZit's just a Recommends12:57
KatolaZnot a Depends12:57
KatolaZso it's pretty harmless12:57
KatolaZif users don't want it, they'd just purge it12:57
KatolaZend of story12:57
KatolaZit's like other thousands of silly Recommends12:57
parazydI agree.12:58
KatolaZwell, let's put ascii out12:59
KatolaZthat's the only important thing12:59
jaromilAs I said before about pulseaudio I would love to see it out but conscious it would break so many things that I just "don't touch" until either I have time to create a team to study the problem or someone else does.13:00
jaromilas a workflow this should be: study and present an assessment to devs, then decide if its worth the effort13:00
KatolaZjaromil: pulling pulseudio out is not something to do in a Sunday afternoon....13:00
jaromilI think we don't even have a clear assessment now13:00
jaromilyes13:00
KatolaZand honestly, many users are apparently fine with it13:01
jaromilI think pretty much nothing in Devuan should be just done in a Sunday afternoon by one single person13:01
jaromilhowever, focusing on the RC, we should put ASCII out pretty soon I think13:01
KatolaZwe just need to rebuild the installer13:01
KatolaZand the live isos13:01
jaromilI am not sure I can attend on wednesday (I'll be busy all night helping to dismantle this exhibition in Rome https://binart.eu)13:02
KatolaZI guess parazyd has to rebuild a couple of ARM images13:02
KatolaZbut that would be it13:02
parazydAll of them :p13:02
KatolaZ:D13:02
jaromiland propose we move the meeting to friday and work on the release preparations through the weekend, with the tentative release day being next monday13:02
KatolaZoki13:02
KatolaZno jaromil13:02
KatolaZlet's have the meeting on wednesday13:02
KatolaZso we can have the images ready for the weekend13:02
parazydMeet tomorrow and release this week.13:02
parazydYes ^13:02
KatolaZit's not a plannig meeting13:03
KatolaZthis is an operative one13:03
KatolaZchecking that everything is fien for the RC213:03
KatolaZ~fine13:03
jaromiloh, aiming at an RC2?13:03
jaromilok13:03
KatolaZstart uploading images13:03
KatolaZetc/13:03
jaromilI'm fine with this. just cannot attend well tomorrow and afraid the meeting becomes too much of a quarrel over this pulseaudio issue13:03
KatolaZuh?13:03
jaromilfrom a methodological point of view, it should not be an issue during RC release cycle13:04
KatolaZand in fact it is not13:04
KatolaZand won't :)13:04
jaromilI will be able to assist release cycle with anything needed from thursday night onwards13:04
KatolaZgret jaromil!13:04
KatolaZ~great13:04
jaromilcool13:04
parazydjaromil: Do you want me to attend building the virtual machines?13:05
KatolaZfsmithred: you here?13:11
KatolaZhttps://bugs.devuan.org/db/20/208.html <- fsmithred13:12
KatolaZshould we rebuild refractainstaller-gui?13:12
jaromilparazyd: yes please13:19
parazyd:nod:13:20
jaromilthanks13:27
jaromilOT but :ahhhhwwwwww shite: https://github.com/dyne/Tomb/issues/31313:27
KatolaZ /o\13:31
jaromilno idea why they did that in assuan13:34
fsmithredKatolaZ, yes, both refractainstallers can be rebuilt. gui and base13:40
KatolaZok  fsmithred13:40
KatolaZthanks13:40
KatolaZwill attend that later then13:40
KatolaZso that we can close that one13:40
fsmithredyes13:40
AntoFoxo/13:43
AntoFoxguys sorry for incovenience but need do rebuild entire mate repository (hezeh)13:44
AntoFoxwith the latest updates there are unmet dependencies13:44
KatolaZAntoFox: :\13:46
KatolaZfsmithred: do you have a link to the d1g post about replacing slim/consolekit with lightdm/elogind?13:51
KatolaZ(I can't find it using search :( )13:51
fsmithredyeah, I can find it13:52
KatolaZhttps://bugs.devuan.org/db/20/201.html <- it is relevant to this "bug"13:52
fsmithredif you're thinking of Irrwahn's post13:52
KatolaZwhich is not a bug report at all :/13:52
KatolaZdunno13:52
KatolaZI remember there was a post about replacing slim with lightdm13:52
KatolaZand selecting the correct polkit stuff13:52
KatolaZIrrwahn: do you think it would be good to have that information among the documentation? (i.e., in the wiki?)13:53
fsmithredhttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8217#p821713:54
KatolaZthanks13:55
fsmithredhow do I get synaptic to ask for a password instead of just starting? (refracta upgraded to ascii does this) I already tried installing policykit-1-gnome and it had no effect.13:56
fsmithredeveryone else has the opposite problem - synaptic doesn't start from menu at all.13:56
KatolaZfsmithred: the latest change in policykit gives right to sudoers users to use it13:57
KatolaZ(I guess(13:57
fsmithredsudoers could always use it13:57
fsmithredthe new p-1-g made it so that it worked with root password13:57
KatolaZoh sure14:06
KatolaZthe thing that lets it being started is the -gnome thing14:06
fsmithredI'm comparing pam files now (devuan-live vs. refracta)14:07
fsmithredthere are some differences14:07
rrqdo we have a click-button procedure for forwarding a bug report (#176) to debian?16:52
KatolaZrrq: nope16:53
rrqbother :( it's such a commandable bug report, with patch and all.18:14
KatolaZrrq: which one?18:15
KatolaZfsmithred: do you have a jessie installation at hand?19:32
KatolaZor anybody else, for that matter....19:33
fsmithredKatolaZ, yes19:53
fsmithredwhat do you need?19:53
KatolaZnothing19:55
KatolaZsolved19:55
KatolaZthanks19:55
KatolaZinvestigating the lsb_release issue19:55
KatolaZ#19919:55
KatolaZwith parazyd19:56
rrqsorry, I closed shop a bit, to fill up the mid section.21:12
rrqKatolaZ: bug #176 re vde2 .. not anything fatal; I just have a slight interest in vde2.21:13
* DocScrutinizer05 got a feature into supybot :-)23:08
DocScrutinizer05Donnager: channel help config23:09

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